Edited on 2013-05-22 13:32:10

Edited on 2013-05-22 13:31:14

Just got my JCNA Journal.....MAY/JUNE 2013
To bad jag didnt build whats on page 9 and 10 .
It wouldnt have to be exact but, MY GOD, would that sell.
I know Ian Callum , I own an ASTON MARTIN VANQUISH, I owned the old xk8 from 2001.
They were all great.
I just think Jag REALLY missed the boat on the new car.
Hope Im wrong, but Ive noticed a real interest in the old ETYPES again.
Old men have to spend money somewhere.....
I just dont think it will be on the new Ftype....sorry.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Fri, 07/05/2013 - 14:09

Its only been 2 days since I closed the office for the long holiday weekend and have now spotted 4 of theose SCION cars that kind of look like the etype replacement.
Hey some guy blacked out the wheels, another guy gad some kind of carbon rear tail spoiler. So I looked up the price sinec ive seen 4 from the Hamptons to Queens border. They strat at 26 grand and all in around 35,000 maybe.
All young people too, and with the bling they bolted on, they were around the 40 grand tops.........4 in 2 days.
I haven't even seen joes ftype yet?
Did they really build them or was this just so the press can drive an etype again?
4 in 2 days, On Long Island home of the Lexus/Mercedes/well used to be Jag.

Submitted by lenscats@comcast.net on Mon, 07/01/2013 - 14:58

I have been in Marketing at a National level and find Jaguar has committed a fatal sin, competing with itself. The F Type was to be an entry level sports car to compete with the Boxter and the BMW Z car. Now it is priced to compete with Jaguar;s own product line.

To bad, the original F Type consept would have really put Jaguar back in the sports car business.

Submitted by howardbollinge… on Mon, 07/01/2013 - 13:06

I too was at the Richmond Challenge Championship and listened to Ian Callums extensive "design speak" talk, about how the F got to be what it is. I am an Industrial Designer and have worked in the consumer goods arena since 1962.

The "design speak" parts of Callums talk about the process of designing the F referred to things like, tautness of line, simplicity of panel contouring, absence of random lines, and so forth and so on. Throughout the talk there were a lot of shots of 120's. E's, C's, D's and other iconic Jaguar designs flashed on the screen as if to convince us that the F design fit right in to this pantheon of classics.

Regrettably, with all the "design speak", and rationalizing explanations by Callum about why the car looks like it does, the F is not breakthrough! It simply is not up to historic Jaguar standards, especially after all these years of waiting for the new sports car, a big letdown, it's not great!

When it came time for Q and A, after about six other questions he called on me. I proceeded to ask him: "Why does the F have absolutely no Jaguar styling DNA and since I first saw it in pictures, and now that I've seen for real today, it still is totally underwhelming. Why does it look so much like so many other cars in the marketplace already?"

His answer, as I reflect upon it , was just about as " confusing speak" as one could answer when the product you've designed gets criticized for it's unoriginality.

I still say that Marketing made the F come out to be what "they" think it should look like. Marketing asks people in consumer testing what they like. They rely on this kind of decision making which comes up mostly with answers relative to things people already know and like, very close and repetitive of the design trend of the day. In general, Marketing does not like to take chances on breakthrough products. They want to protect their careers more then they want to produce great product. I lived with MBA's and their mindset for 30+ years.
See my previous, 28 May, post on this thread.

Well, I got to ask Callum why the F doesn't look like a Jaguar and got as expected, not much of an answer. After all the talk, it is not a breakthrough design. It will never stand in the same high echelon of design as the E. I have not driven it but I'm sure performance is spectacular. It will never make me feel the way I felt when I first saw the E, which hooked me for life!

I did however say at the end of my question that I hope for Jaguars sake, the F sells well. I also had quite a few people come up after and say how much they agreed with with me.

Submitted by vineyardman68@… on Sun, 06/30/2013 - 22:48

Edited on 2013-06-30 22:54:47

Sorry about that Will, I meant the pictures of the F model at the beginning of this thread....

BTW, I did love the Mk VII. Wish I still had it. The picture of the MK VII, believe it or not, was taken in Panama City, Fl., some 46 years ago.
Seems like only yesterday.

Garfield

Submitted by vineyardman68@… on Sun, 06/30/2013 - 00:46

I hate to bring this up again----it has more or less been beaten to death----but i just had to say something.

The new F will be what it is regardless of what we say, but after this past Friday's drive and then through a rather large city about 150 miles from here, I was shocked at what I saw. I passed a Mercedes-Benz dealership and saw all the new MB parked in front of the place, and said to myself--- maybe the new F model isn't really all that bad.

They--the Mercedes- Benz-- all looked, to me, like a bunch of sled's---pointed noses, hiked up rear ends. Talk about not looking like anything in the past, this is it. I had an MB for years and always loved that front end. However, the grills started getting smaller and smaller, to now their more or less just a big round emblem.

I would hate to know that I was in the market for one. Talk about missing the boat with their new cars.

Tthough all the new cars have started looking like each other, a case of copycat, the most recent example was when Mazda came out a couple of years ago with one of their cars that had a "Guppy" mouth front end. Before long all the new cars had the same stupid looking front. Thank God Jaguar didn't follow suit, although by painting the middle part of the air dam below the grill makes it look close. (see front on picture above)

Maybe I'll have another look at the new Jags----

Garfield
05/XJ8-L

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Sat, 06/22/2013 - 22:30

What I don't get once again, is " we are not creating a new ETYPE", But then he is drawing ETYPES on paper,Then he states.... A jaguar must be sexy and functional.
Then its back to ETYPE talk.
They are all over the map.
Like some have said its a VERY confusing message when most online videos with Ian , or tv spots constantly refer to the ETYPE, but then retract to something else.
Please don't tell me this car is pretty, Please.........I just received my jaguar world. Once again, at least they are even handed. Point blank a reader mailed in that the car was ugly and they printed it.
I think there is more than a handful that feels the same way.
The front nose now to me is completely STOLEN from the Nissan , its an exact copy.
Driving the ETYPE to wine country tomorrow, sex on wheels baby.......
I also went to price a new ASTON V8, They are 123,000 all in....Which would I choose?
How many under 40 year olds are in the same market?
Its to damn expensive........
Do we really new a RETRACTABLE A/C DUCT SYSTEM......More crap.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE40-48370 on Sat, 06/22/2013 - 17:44

I understand your point David and I too regarded some his connections with past models as being a little tenuous. All I can say is that having watched his full presentation at Richmond last weekend, I am reassured he and his large team really have thought these issues through and that under the design-speak is an ethos of respect for Jaguar's brand characteristics and a wish to build on them rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Callum is much more convincing in person, even when jet-lagged. Apart from the simple fact you can't please everyone and will definitely annoy some, his work seems to stack up when you see the cars in the flesh.

Pete

Submitted by DavidBarnes71@… on Sat, 06/22/2013 - 16:41

It was a strange piece of fluff. I always get confused when i hear Ian Callum try to explain how his designs relate to the wonderful styling of the past. I hope to see soon what Clarkson, Hammond, May and the Stig think of the F-type on Top Gear.

David Barnes
68 E-type FHC

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Fri, 06/21/2013 - 23:20

Edited on 2013-06-21 23:23:10

Oh well, out of the whole half hour, if you minus out ALL the ETYPE drooling, Take out how this car was the ETYPE for the 21 st century BUT not an ETYPE . You basically had 4 minutes during the whole show to talk about the car, Forgot, they talked about England, English roads, Texas race tracks, rock n roll music, kinda strange, NO?
Guess there wasn't to much to talk about the car.
How come they showed the OLD body being built on the assembly line, kinda looked good compared to the new one.......
GTJOEY, Hoping Jag sells a million of them, I think anything over 3,000 will be a surprise...

Submitted by NC47-47501 on Fri, 06/14/2013 - 15:38

Must be dealer gouging going on. I took delivery of my loaded, V8S a week ago and the sticker was around $103k. Remember that if you load a Boxster it can approach $90k and to put similar equipment on a 911S Cabriolet is well over $130k.

As I stated in an earlier post; the size of the car is a tricky subject. The E-Type was as large or larger than many of it's contemporaries (MGA, TR3 or 4, 356) but offered more power and luxury...sound familiar?

In my perfect world, the F would have been under 3000 lbs. with GT3 type power and a better E-Type design

Submitted by vineyardman68@… on Fri, 06/14/2013 - 15:11

I've read the "extensive" comments, and I must say, interesting personal stories and --not a few of the name dropings-- and all about what? The new "F Type".

From all this I've learned a number of things. The new car is not a: Honda, Aston Martin Vanquish, Eclipse, Scion, Subaru, Jaguar Lyonheart, the old E Type, nor is it a: Corvette, Porsche, a GT this or that, a BMW Z8 or is it a Harley Davidson. It isn't a Ford, or a GM product, or any other American, German, Italian or what ever, made car. So it must, by all comparisons, just be a Jaguar F model.

It ranges anywhere between 80 to 125 thousand-- and above-- dollars at American dealers. Way above the intended market of the younger generation.

So here is what I have come up with in the pro and con department.

Pro's: It's new. It's bigger then expected. It drives nice.

Cons: It doesn't look anything like the Old "E" Type. Jaguar missed the boat on this one. It has too many plastic parts.
And the most important part: It's too expensive.

I don't know where I saw this, but it was an ad that stated the car started at $69,000 + a little change. This of course must have been a TaTa ad, because as stated in all the above comments, most cars are in the $100,000 range. Wow! what a difference. Could this overage mean that the difference in price range is "Dealer Mark Up"? Or, are all the cars ordered with most of the goodies added on before they leave the factory? Either way that is a huge difference. A difference that would turn the general younger generation away. Someone some where is seeing only dollars signs.

Cars like this new F type were meant to be fun cars. Week-end cars. Not the family-run over to grandma's doing the week. To be left out in the boilling sun in a parking lot somewhere while the owner works inside- cars. In other words the dealer price prevents these from being young family cars. There are many out there who buy cars like this and can pay the emungust prices mentioned, but then park these cars in an air conditioned garage or trailer, to be hauled around to the great get togethers sponsored by other hanger queens, but TaTa had a different plan for the car, however from what I've seen and read, because of greed inspired prices, this plan will not happen and as predicted in a few comments above, will fade into the sunset wondering why. Don't wonder TaTa, the American dealer prices are your reason.

I'm not trying to step on toes here, I'm just stating facts. If the car is advertised starting at $69,000 + Taxes etc., where are they?

Why would any young family buy a "fun" car for this amount of money when they can buy Honda's, Eclipse, Scion's, or the many other fun cars for thousands less. Sunset bound? Maybe so......
Garfield
05/XJ8-L

Submitted by bblackwell@jcna.com on Thu, 06/13/2013 - 22:59

Jaguar's website says the F Type curb weight is 3,521 to 3,671 lbs, not 4,200.

The car in the flesh is more appealing than the photos. I have no doubt that power, braking, handling, comfort, reliability, and let's not forget safety, are improved markedly in the half century from E to F Type.

Trunk size in the roadster is better than an E Type roadster, but I doubt the coupe will be able to make the same claim.

On all new cars, especially of this complexity, the technical obsolescence of the microprocessors makes it to where you probably will see E Types in 25 more years, but you won't see any cars of the current vintage.

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:45

Hey, all kidding aside, when the new HONDA NSX comes out next year as a 2015 for $130,000, that's only 5 grand more than the f type loaded . Start comparing.
The NSX will be 3,100 lbs, compared to 4,200 lbs on the f type.
v6 480 hp,zero to 60 in 3 seconds and drop dead gorgeous in a sports car way.
I like Ian Cullem, and my Aston Vanquish is one of the most beautiful designs EVER made, but this is not even worth mentioning.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:26

I thought in todays article they said the mid engine car would be out in 2 years?. The second concept looks like a front engine job, but really look sexy.
I understand the points but.........
Either way those 2 cars in theory are hot, visually VERY hot.
On the other hand...The FTYPE / ECLIPSE / SCION / SUBARU......That's another boring story.Hey
Would I like to spend nothing today and dream about a sexy car that might come out in 2 years.............or
Spend $125,000.00 today and have a car that is well, everyone keep making excuses,.................... I just drove my etype to work today and plenty of young ladies my sons age just wanted to know everything about it....
Makes an old guy feel good.....real good...
Now whos got the discounts on the little blue pills, medicaid is cutting us off.......
GTJOEY 1314 TRYING TO LAUGH AT A BAD SITUATION, KEEP SMILING

Submitted by NE40-48370 on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:03

Pardon me injecting a dose of cold hard reality here. We are talking about a real flesh and blood car that complies with all current and likely medium term regulations (and is getting pretty good reviews in the motoring press from people who aren't especially loyal to Jaguar). This car is being criticised because people like the look of a computer graphics Lyonheart that only exists on a hard drive somewhere, and some moody enhanced photos of a concept car with an inch of ground clearance and cartwheel rims coated with a thin veneer of rubber?

The Lyonheart is dream and the Infiniti a concept that complies with no regulations and could not get up the average driveway without grounding in the storm drain, wearing rims that look like they'd buckle just going across a heavy white line, never mind a pothole. These have as much to do with driveable sellable cars as supermodels in 12" platform shoes on the catwalk have to do with walking your kids to the soccer field on a wet winter weekend.

Apart from the rear three-quarter Infiniti shot (top right), both comparators remind me of Barbie Dolls - fascinating to day dreamy pre-pubescent children maybe, but you would want to date one? Is the F-type drop-dead gorgeous, or my standout favorite design of the decade? No. Does it squeeze every last drop of possible E-type heritage from the Jag DNA? No. Am I going to criticize it for not matching 'rival' concept car doodles or CGI slide shows? Nope.

Submitted by DavidBarnes71@… on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 20:53

Last week one of the 30 year old guys I work with who knows I am a Jaguar guy said he just saw the recent TV ads for the F-type telling me he thought it looked good and asked what I thought. I had him pull out his smart-phone and pull up the pics of the Lyonheart. He absolutely flipped and had the same kind of reaction to it that I think a bunch of us had when we first saw an E-type.

I went to a Jaguar dealer last weekend and looked at the F for the first time in person. It is a nice looking car and I rarely say that about any car designed after the 1970's. I do like it more in person than I did in the pictures but I still think Jaguar missed the WOW factor opportunity they could have had if they had used more of the styling (and value) heritage that Malcolm Sayer and William Lyons left to the folks currently running things. Maybe they will realize this with the G-type like Jaguar did back when the boxy XJ40 returned to the flowing William Lyons inspired lines on the XJ models that came next.

David Barnes
68 E-type FHC

Submitted by azmmgm@yahoo.com on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 18:19

Dreaming is good and you guys are good at it.
The Infinity Concept all alloy mid engine car was at Pebble Beach last August,a great looking vehicle, maybe as inexpensive as $150,000 to $200,000 if they ever build it . To put it next to a new existing auto (Porsche 918 isn't for sale yet at what cost?) under $400,000 would be a major mismatch in looks and the top doesn't come off.
I was lucky to spend about 2 hours at Las Vegas motor speedway driving the 6S and 8SF-type. A blast! I was a little disappointed that there was no manual transmission ---YET!
I also lucked out driving one of the two XK180s back in the early 2000's in the Gauthier Classic in AZ. The car was fantastic looking, very impractical but a good ride.
The new car does great on the road as well as the track. Even with an Auto.
So now we are talking about two possible concept cars compared to an existing JAGUAR REAL SPORTS CAR. So if you are looking for a great handling, nice looking Jaguar, this is it .They did a great job all around for a street and possible track car. It is a Jaguar. It is not a $?,???,??? .Infinity Concept car.
Will they continue to make the new F-Type better. Why not!
Can you imagine in GM didn't improve the 1976Corvette!

If you want a $100,000 street race car built in Japan or US, it is not.
For the dreamers of the concept cars, keep dreaming. You have a better chance tracking down one of the two XK180's to buy.

Submitted by howardbollinge… on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 17:13

Well... Here is a link to the new Infiniti sports car that GTJoey refers to. It does look a lot like what we might say could be a new E-Type for the 21st century. The new E should, however, have the elliptical bonnet mouth ,to give it some proper Jaguar dna., none of which the F-Type has! The body lines do have the sensuous overall feel that evokes the passion that Jaguar has missed out on with the F. What do you think?

http://www.google.com/search?q=new+infiniti+sports+car&tbm=isch&tbo=u&so...

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:03

Edited on 2013-06-12 16:50:49

Did anyone see the new Infinity sports car they say will be on the market in under 2 years......
If someone can post the pictures.....
Now that is a VERY SEXY and hot car. WOW!.
If someone could?
Lets put it side by side to the new FTYPE... Just take an informal poll.....
It just hit me, their 2 concept cars are modern versions of the etype and the xj13......
Look at them close they are gorgeous.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Fri, 05/31/2013 - 22:03

Shhhhhhhhhh, Im planning on driving from New York to Pebble Next year with those new trick Michelins on the ETYPE...... Im probably going to run the whole route 66 along the way........Cant do it this year we have the party with Bill Ford this summer at the museum and the GT40'S.
Shhhhhh you in!
GTJOEY1314
KEEP SMILING....

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Fri, 05/31/2013 - 22:02

Shhhhhhhhhh, Im planning on driving from New York to Pebble Next year with those new trick Michelins on the ETYPE...... Im probably going to run the whole route 66 along the way........Cant do it this year we have the party with Bill Ford this summer at the museum and the GT40'S.
Shhhhhh you in!
GTJOEY1314
KEEP SMILING....

Submitted by howardbollinge… on Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:06

I suppose many of you have by now received your May-June edition of the Jaguar Journal. Everyone must read Paul Skilleters article on pg. 8, "Musings on the Changing Face of Jaguar". As most all of us know, Skilleter is a true Jaguar lover ,historian, and true standard bearer for the Marque. He has to be one of the true world experts on Jaguar.

The first byline on the article says: "Paul Skilleter reflects on the F-Types future and it's place in the album of Jaguar design. He then says but ......"What if...."

The, "What if" then starts to develop by having only one picture of the F, next to an XK120, which reenforces once again, the boring, repetitive front end of the F which exhibits NO Jaguar dna except for the small badge on the grille and word "Jaguar" on a sticker on the bonnet which almost looks like it was placed there so people would not mistake it for one of the dozens of todays cars it resembles.

As Skilleter continues, he then discusses Ian Callum and quotes bits of Mr Callums stated design philosophy. "Jaguar has to move on", "it has to be ahead of the game." Think about this, since the F looks so much like so many cars already in the marketplace, it seems to be already BEHIND in the game. Being ahead of the game is doing something different that DOESN'T look like what's there now!

Next comes the most important thought that Skilleter wants to convey. On the next two pages he shows no less than 5 photos of the Lyonheart design. This design is very close to what the F- Type should look like!

Obviously many will respond right up front saying that the LH is "Now only a computer generated design and inot a real car yet. They will also say that it will have to change to meet safety regulations etc.,etc. and all the worn out associated cop outs without really admitting that the F is not what a 21st century Jaguar sports car should be, beautiful and more affordable!

Skilleter is being very subtle in inferring that he obviously doesn't think the F delivers what it should for Jaguar.

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:35

I just returned from the Jag dealer.......
My impressions......1. The black helps for my overall impression tremendously.
2. The back of the car in BLACK ,I do like , Im not a fan of that plastic chrome leaper on the trunk, That seems to be on the whole model line , but thats okay. Cheap looking but okay.
3. Its a BIG CAR. Good room inside, but you sit really low. Kind of like a chrysler 300.
The doors are high ,its a depth perception thing.P.s. same cheap jag leaper on the steering wheel, Its annoying cheap.
4. It drove fine in the v8 that I drove and the optional fan style wheels DID make a big improvement from the side. Plus the optional red calipers.
5.The car no matter how you cut it , is over 4,200 lbs, before me and my petite wife jump in.
6. The front nose, is geared to under 35 year olds, the whole edgy/ninja I will call import tuner look.
Why they cant bury the nerf bar behind the grille? It would help ALOT.
Overall if you had the cash and it was your ultimate ride and sporty drive, its in the hunt, but for what demographic, Im really not sure.
Joe is my age, he's a jag guy, so we get his passion for the history.
How many other buyers are in that group?
Tax /title and all your over $125,000.00.
Maybe like Joe said, wait a couple of years, I was picking out the same details to improve upon, different nose, Better steering wheel, Less plastic interior. Less emblems.
Maybe some kind of wood?
I hope it sells well, I hope jag sells millions of them,....
In black, In a coupe and a couple of tweeks, I could be in as well.
Time will tell, hopefully Jag has the time.
Good Luck and enjoy your new ride my friend, report on its traits along the way.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by jdcli@mail.com on Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:56

Joe has been with the our local club for over 20 years as he stated. He
hosts our annual Vanderbilt Show every year in September, does a
great job too ! 23 members is not accurate more than double that for sure!

I have to admit, I did drop him from one of the many membership updates
that I submit to the JCNA in March. So my bad !

His number is JCNA33632,

Thanks much for your time .

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:58

Joe, Its funny, I have 2 etype coupes and recently sold my 2001 xk8 convertable and to top it off I will admit to being the same exact 48!
After reading your post and its perspective I made an appointment to see the exact black convertable as in your picture tomorrow at lunch time at Heritage Jaguar.
We shall see........
Just a little back round of how I came back to Jag and the site.
I was president of the Jaguar club for 4 years bringing the Long Island chapter from 38 paid members all the way to 300 plus paid membesr in 12 months.
Ive owned over 100 cars but always return to my true passion JAGUAR.
From 2002 to 2006 we averaged 300 cars per concours with Aston/TVR/MG and all the rest to boot.
One year having over 20 million dollars in Aston in one field.
Pebble Beach 2012 I ran into Dick M. as I was eating dinner with the WELSH family.
Dave and his dad have been friends for close to 25 years!
It was at that meet on the 50th of ETYPE that everything came back around, the friends, the club , the rides...
I was there that day with JAY LENO as I was driving my FORD GT SUPERCAR , Around the world which all can see at Jay Leno's site.
My co pilot Chris and I made it!
I met old friends to jaguar like Mike Odriscol,Ian Cullem,Brian Redman and all the rest.
It was a wonderful time and wished it would never end.
Now stirring up the Etype for trips around the country is back on the calendar.
Why all this backup....
People forget their roots and history. I felt strongly about how the new Jag is a make or break for the entire brand.
When you go to a doctor and have chest pains, dont tell the doctor your foot hurts .....Its not going to help cure a thing....
Ralph my local jcna regional person just called to say he was sorry and screwed up my membership renewal.....I obviously get the magazine and started this whole thread.
He said a person wanted to ban me from the forum? Im not a member, I didnt exist?
and I shouldnt compare the Jag or knock it.
25 years and formed one of the largest clubs, which now is down to 23 paid members after I and my cochairs stepped down.....
Hopefully this was just a mix up.
Ralph will post my jcna member number shortly.....
Joe will report back after I see the car in the flesh, If Im still able to post.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NC47-47501 on Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:46

My two cents: I'm 48 and currently own three series one E-Types, a 2000 XKR coupe and a 1960 MGA. Next week I will be taking delivery of a V8S F-Type.

All modern cars are going to be full of compromises as federal regulations have all but made the idea of a modern E-Type next to impossible. We have to remember that the E-Type was an amazing package for it's day, but it was not lighter, or more "sports car like" than many of it's contemporaries. It was technologically advanced, powerful, luxurious and achingly beautiful. To this day I am amazed at how comfortable these cars are to drive. I agree that the styling of the F-Type is not all it could be, but the retro design philosophy is fast becoming tired. That being said, I do wish they had found a way to incorporate a few more styling cues; especially in the front (I think the tail lights, rear haunches and center exhaust are a nice touch). From a marketing standpoint its a "damned if you do", "damned if you don't" as there will always be those on both sides of the scale. I wanted to make mention that I too was at Amelia and there were plenty of people around the F-Type and it was nearly impossible to get a good photo. It's hard for any car to stand out at that great event. The line of Mclaren's 50 feet away probably didn't help either.

Concept: I know for many of us, the dream was for a low weight modern interpretation. Should they have made a better Miata? A more luxurious Exige? A more powerful Boxster/Cayman? The E-Type was designed to compete with some of the worlds most powerful cars of the era and the decision was made to do the same with the F-Type. My biggest disappointment is that they were unable to find a way to make it at least 300 pounds lighter to better compete with the 911 and Corvette.

Pricing and target market: I understand the comments relating to the age and financial position for the F-Type buyers (or any of the other target cars). The reality is that they understand that 30 year olds are not likely to be able to afford this car, but hope that it may hook them for future purchase decisions. The pricing being cited by some for similar cars is not entirely realistic. It's easy to note how cheap the Boxster/Cayman appear, but you will never be able to order a car for anywhere near the base price. A optioned Boxster is around $90k and even a Corvette Grand Sport approaches nearly $75K. The 911S is quite a bit more expensive and the Astons are outrageous. Remember that the E-Type was priced competitively in it's day, but was still not a car that most young people could afford. If the F-Type proves successful at it's price point, Jaguar has the option to develop a true small, lightweight sports car in the future to better attract younger buyers. Personally, I very much like the combination of luxury, handling and speed that the F-Type provides.

Conclusion: There have been many great points in this spirited discussion but it will always boil down to personal opinions and desires. I'm going to be driving on great country roads and doing a few track days at Road America. A 911 is probably the better all around car for this, but the styling has never been my favorite, Boxster is not powerful enough and Corvette is never an option. Although imperfect, the legacy, overall design, power and sound of the V8S won me over. We all have to keep in mind that this is a brand new car. With any luck, Jaguar will listen to the critics and continue to improve the car as the years pass.

P.S. I'm hoping to attach a photo I took last weekend which really shows how cars have changed.

Submitted by howardbollinge… on Wed, 05/29/2013 - 08:42

Hi William,
I respectfully honor your opinion calling this discussion "blabber". I too, feel when subjects get a bit off the mark of a worthwhile beginning they do lose impact.

I sense however, that this discussion, kept on point, can have great impact when read by the people inside Jaguar who should be caring about what Jaguar owners say. We own Jaguars and they must understand WHY we love them and not just that we HAVE them.

People on this forum who have strong passion for the brand, like myself, and aren't afraid to express the question to Jaguar about why aren't they taking full stylistic advantage of the most important legacy they own, the E, can do great service to sustaining the brand versus having them produce a car that doesn't deliver any Jaguar legacy!

I would ask everyone who reads this thread to genuinely ask themselves whether the F delivers to them the same "gut" and "gotta have one someday" feeling that they felt when they first saw an E-Type. I've been totally disappointed since I first saw the F.

I would hope that a great number of us who have the passion for the E would express the fact to them that we think the F, regardless of all this drivel about who they are "marketing it to" does not, beyond performance, meet the other Jaguar standards of being uniquely sensational looking and priced where more can afford it. That sounds familiar doesn't it!

One other thing, I want Jaguar to succeed beyond all expectations, but the F may not.

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 19:17

Is there a full moon tonight............ I just called , Jack Weidinger, the Grandson to Hugh W.
Hugh is dead about 20 years and his son Jake who is now 70 is coming back from florida.
They both claim that they are the OLDEST jaguar dealership in the USA.
That dealership is now called the freeport/great neck dealerships. Which has 2 locations...
Is everyone else still following.
What this has to do with an ugly f type, Im still not sure.
But Im game.
Heres the BIG question, are you buying the first Ftype.
If you are..... the oldest dealer has alot of them to choose from..........
Keep smiling.
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:59

Well, I never knew if Hempstead Jaguar now Freeport/GreatNeck in New York or Hornburg on the west coast was the oldest.So I was placing a safe bet.
Does it matter?
They both are selling an ugly looking F TYPE.......
For $100,000.00
Now who really won the war, the south or the north....
Just Having fun.......
The Ftype is going to die on the vine my friend.
There are NO under 40 year olds that will pay that kind of money for that car.
I was really banking on the xf wagon though.....
Enjoy
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:46

Tough news, I just called my Jag dealer the oldest on the east coast who we have bought Jags from for over 40 years.......
First off the coupe will not be available till at least DECEMBER 2014!, maybe.
For giggles I was quoting the new Ftype, 6 cylinder supercharged and the v8 on the floor.
Guys the 6 cylinder was $95,000+ and the v8 $103,000+ , then add tax/title and all the rest......UMMMMMMM
I can buy a low mileage VANQUISH and a 4 YEAR OLD 911. Or a couple of db7's with a couple of miles, or.....An etype coupe, mint,a mini cooper a couple of triumph bonneville 650 bikes and still take a full week all expense trip to disneyworld!
P.s, I mentioned the XF WAGON, All I got back was, what? never heard of it? 4 cylinder turbo what? It cant get 700 miles to the tank full?
So its clear the direction of Jag is like a boat without oars right now......
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by NE23-54945 on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:18

Brian, I am in the same camp. The only reason I traded in my 1995 xj6 bought new was I had 135,000 miles in 5 years....I loved that car.
The x300 was the real deal jag /modern/jag.
I picked up a 96 xjr with 10,000 miles for 10 grand.
This was about 2 years ago, had the time of my life, put 45,000 miles in 24 months and still got 5 grand for it when I was done.
People would just stop and look at it with the grill and all.
Ill wait too when the coupe comes, but Im now hearing its 80 grand +.
Again missing the boat of the original intension.
Im not a german car guy, but you can get a pre owned 911 a couple years old for LESS than that and the car will be bullet proof.
Hey guys nice chat, Keep dreaming....
GTJOEY1314

Submitted by bblackwell@jcna.com on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:38

I also heard about the Enzo Ferrari quote directly from Norman at one of JCNA events; I believe it was PIttsburgh AGM in 2008. I had seen the quotation referenced in books and magazines without knowing the source, and was surprised to hear how it went down reported in detail by Norman Dewis himself. I told my wife that night it was the most significant take away from his talk for me. That, and the story about Sir William sticking him with the check for the press conference champagne after one of the Le Mans wins, until his boss, engineering chief William Heynes, set it right afterwards. Norman also said they pinched the pennies after the race so tightly, that he often had to sell Dunlop racing tires for money to get home on.

Norman said he was in Italy with one of the early cars doing follow on testing after the Geneva introduction, at a track that was also extensively used by the Ferrari factory testing and competition teams. Enzo Ferrari often visited the track, and came over one day to see the car up close. During that visit, he told Norman he thought it was the most beautiful car ever designed, and that the only thing wrong with it was that there was not a prancing horse on it.

As for the overall debate, the global buzz over the F Type, or lack thereof, will be the proof. Part of the overall buzz with the E Type was the performance, for the price. The earlier F Type prototype sketches of a decade ago created considerable buzz by themselves, as the car looked a lot more like the E Type. I tried to give the dealer here a deposit for one of those then, but they would not take it.

I am still waiting to see what the F Type coupe looks like in the flesh, and what luggage capacity it has. I am not known to travel light enough for XK type products. My FHC and XJ-S Coupe have better trunk capacity than my X300 did. My next one is likely to be an XF. Would have been nice to have known Jaguar was coming out with a >30 MPG highway car when I was shopping for a high mileage car last year, but no such foreshadowing is available through media, or JCNA either. I asked the question at the 2012 AGM, and was told 'there would be options in the future ...' . The future turned out to be by Thanksgiving of that same year, at your local dealer. The auto business is far, far different than it was five decades ago.

Submitted by howardbollinge… on Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:17

Hi George,
Ask Norman Dewis. He is the source. I've either seen a video, or he related it in a talk he gave somewhere that I attended or he told me when he signed my car at Richmond in 2011.

Whichever way, Norman spoke about this very experience with Ferrari himself at the Geneva E launch in 61 during the time when Norman was "driving" demo rides for the press, et. al. I'm surprised you haven't seen nor heard that. BTW, I think ND also related that EF said there was only one thing wrong with the E, "It didn't have a Ferrari badge."

BTW, I really feel the comment, re: Ferrari, is rather inconsequential to this overall discussion since millions more around the world who are still alive, unlike him, still believe the E-Type is the most beautiful car in the world, and probably would agree that Jaguar is missing a huge opportunity by not taking advantage of the huge legacy they own.

Ask Norman.

Thanks, LOL HB.