Re: US Spares Days?

Not that irrational Steve...

It is true that JCNA and the clubs need to develop activities to appeal to a large number of members. 6000 and change is not where we should be.

Regional tours are great. there are many points of interest, in SE we could have something along the Blue Ridge Pkwy into the appalachians, etc.. that would be great.

Such new activities will go a long way for local club to keep members interested and bring in new ones. It will require some coordination between clubs and we need regional directors to step up.

Pascal

: The views voiced herein are my own and may not be attributed to anyone

: other than my irrational self.

: I am glad to see that discussion of a "Spares Day" has had

: some responses.

******

: I have the impression that the JCNA is perfectly willing to standby,

: wring their hands and say "gee good idea but.." and that

: will be the end of any idea not voiced at the board level that might

: surface. I say OK JCNA, just put up the front money. The local clubs

: will do the rest, after all they always have in the past.

: Steve Ferring

: The views voiced herein are my own and may not be attributed to anyone

: other than my irrational self.

Steve,

You are hardly irrational. In fact, you raise an important point that has be irking me since I read several of the responses from the nay-sayers. It seems to me that the real problem with JCNA is that whenever someone comes up with a new idea, it gets some initial enthusiastic support, some alternative ideas are kicked around, and then the Ludites come out of the woodwork and squelch it. And we wonder why JEC in England has 20,000 members while JCNA has trouble mustering 5,000.

I'm not saying my idea was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But it is an idea; an activity that JCNA could get behind, whether it is regional spares days, piggy-backing on existing events or whatever. You can't satisfy all of the people all of the time. But you can make an effort to offer programs and activities that appeal to different segments of the Jaguar community.

Not every activity must appeal to all. I'll slalom, rally, tour, picnic, sit and shoot the breeze with other Jag owners. But you'll never get me to try to have a 100 point concours car. I'm not against concours; it's just not my thing. Varied activities with varied appeal increases, not decreases, the attractiveness of our club to others.

If JCNA is ever going to grow and encompass the large population of Jaguar owners out there who are new to the marque, let alone the many long-timers who are not affiliated, we have to be willing to try new things that reach out to the community at large. Throwing up our hands and saying either "it's too much work" or "why bother, others are doing something like that already," is not the answer. If we keep shooting down every new idea, we'll eventually run ourselves out of existence.

Steve Weinstein

I am glad to see that discussion of a "Spares Day" has had some responses.

I'm also sure that further discussion could refine the idea and lead to a workable adjunct to an activity that the local clubs could use in their event calendars.

However, if JCNA really wants to do more for the members why can't we take a page from other successful clubs and combine a regional tour that includes the moderns, a concours, and a spares day.

The JCNA needs to sponsor these events. The JCNA has the front money and the local clubs have the manpower. Let's combine the two and get some interesting regional tours going that will attract the younger crowd with the new cars.

Every geographic region of this country has interesting things to do or see that others elsewhere would like to see. Other clubs are using these tours to attract new members and retain the old(er) ones. On each coast and in the central region the JCNA could sponsor an interesting tour. Each year the area covered could be moved from the north to the south in each region allowing attendees to travel to at least one if not two of the events.

That's three JCNA sponsored events per year, one in each major geographic region.

Vendors at other club's tours & shows range from member and vendor "parts"(spares day), to new products for maintenance of your new car, and after market add-ons (sound systems, ground effects)for the new cars.

I have the impression that the JCNA is perfectly willing to standby, wring their hands and say "gee good idea but.." and that will be the end of any idea not voiced at the board level that might surface. I say OK JCNA, just put up the front money. The local clubs will do the rest, after all they always have in the past.

Steve Ferring

The views voiced herein are my own and may not be attributed to anyone other than my irrational self.

Daniel has it right. There are dozens of large, well-organized sawp meets in North America. Why not make a list of the most accessible and set up a JCNA area at them? The idea would be to have a Jaguar-specific section for our folks to browse, plus all the attractiones offered by the overall meet. JCNA people also favor other cars and could spend time looking at other British abd European stuff. The organizers of the meets should be happy to have a club working to get more attendance for them!

Setting up our own swap meet, regional or national, would be an enormous amount of work with very high risk of a poor turnout.

It will be very interesting to see how the Challenge swap meet works, especially as Dennis Eynon has set it up specifically NOT to have regular vendors on hand.

Mike Cook

: Who said anything about swapping meat?! :-)

: I think the on-line auction idea and the spares day idea are two

: seperate (but valid) issues. Mike hit the nail on the head when he

: mentioned Carlisle Import Swap meet. This event is H-U-G-E; acres and

: acres of cars, parts, people and projects. An absolute paradise and

: it is within reasonable driving distance of all Northeast major urban

: centers.

: If it has one drawback it is that Carlisle is all things to all people

: (except American cars). In other words you will find parts for Bugeye

: Sprites, Jaguar E-types and rodded Honda Civics all at the same meet.

: Personally that doesn't bother me. I say the more the merrier. I've

: never heard Jaguar people talk much about Carlisle but when I was

: involved with Bugeye Sprites (still have one) all the Spridget lovers

: on the discussion forums would talk about Carlisle and it was a

: religious pilgrimage for them to attend (and be the first at the

: vendor booths at 6 o'clock on Friday morning). I think the infamous

: Stefan Roundy of Jaguar parts fame attends every year with a

: truckload of parts, as do other vendors.

: So it appears as though a "US spares day" already exists.

: Carlisle is very well organized and well attended by vendors and

: buyers alike. The question is: can JCNA get involved somehow and make

: this event more appealing to Jaguar owners (vintage Jaguars, as

: Warren pointed out). At the very least, we could think of buying and

: manning a JCNA booth where we would try to sign up new members. We

: could also heavily publicize it on the website, in the Journal and

: through the newsletter editors of local clubs. We could, for example,

: encourage local clubs to make the trip to Carlisle an offical club

: event (ie: a drive combined with breakfast, lunch or dinner). A

: regional director could encourage communication between clubs and

: regions with the idea of getting them to hook up. Then we could

: contact all the parts vendors we know of and let them know what we

: are doing and encourage them to rent space.

: Perhaps there is more we can do. I'm going to contact the person Mike

: Frank recommended and see if he has any ideas.

: Daniel

: I think a regional swap meat world work in the Northeast US but would.....

Who said anything about swapping meat?! :-)

I think the on-line auction idea and the spares day idea are two seperate (but valid) issues. Mike hit the nail on the head when he mentioned Carlisle Import Swap meet. This event is H-U-G-E; acres and acres of cars, parts, people and projects. An absolute paradise and it is within reasonable driving distance of all Northeast major urban centers.

If it has one drawback it is that Carlisle is all things to all people (except American cars). In other words you will find parts for Bugeye Sprites, Jaguar E-types and rodded Honda Civics all at the same meet. Personally that doesn't bother me. I say the more the merrier. I've never heard Jaguar people talk much about Carlisle but when I was involved with Bugeye Sprites (still have one) all the Spridget lovers on the discussion forums would talk about Carlisle and it was a religious pilgrimage for them to attend (and be the first at the vendor booths at 6 o'clock on Friday morning). I think the infamous Stefan Roundy of Jaguar parts fame attends every year with a truckload of parts, as do other vendors.

So it appears as though a "US spares day" already exists. Carlisle is very well organized and well attended by vendors and buyers alike. The question is: can JCNA get involved somehow and make this event more appealing to Jaguar owners (vintage Jaguars, as Warren pointed out). At the very least, we could think of buying and manning a JCNA booth where we would try to sign up new members. We could also heavily publicize it on the website, in the Journal and through the newsletter editors of local clubs. We could, for example, encourage local clubs to make the trip to Carlisle an offical club event (ie: a drive combined with breakfast, lunch or dinner). A regional director could encourage communication between clubs and regions with the idea of getting them to hook up. Then we could contact all the parts vendors we know of and let them know what we are doing and encourage them to rent space.

Perhaps there is more we can do. I'm going to contact the person Mike Frank recommended and see if he has any ideas.

Daniel

Daniel wrote:

: Interesting ideas from Mike, well worth looking into. ............

: Another point is that England is a relatively small place. Over there,

: they think a 3 or 4 hour drive is a big deal..........

: Another point is that they have an "old world" mentality. It

: doesn't bother them to spend a whole day walking around poking their

: noses in crappy old parts just on the off chance they find something

: rare and useful. Americans have a much shorter attention span ie:

: "order me that new part and I want it yesterday...". The

: english are much more stingy too. They take pride in rehabilitating a

: rusty, bent old part and re-using it whereas the average American

: wants to buy something brand new, shiny and Made in Taiwan from Moss.

: I also think the English consider it to be some sort of adventure...

: you know, cold and raining and having a "spot of tea"

: whilst rummaging through rusty engine blocks............

: Steve is right about geography too. Most people will not want to travel

: more than a 100 miles or so to shop for spares, so it will have to be

: a regional thing with several happening across the country.

+++++++++++++++++++

I think a regional swap meat world work in the Northeast US but would probably not be as successful in areas where the clubs are much farther apart. Texas has four clubs, but Houston is over 200 miles from Dallas and San Antonio and about 170 from Austin. Austin is about 70 miles from San Antonio and about 200 from Dallas. Those kind of distances would probably be acceptable to the hardcore car buff but not the casual owner.

I could (and have) spend all day poking through a pile of rusting junk, but I think I am probably in the minority.

I like Mike's idea of a virtual autojumble. Post what you have and take offers. But doesn't that already pretty much exist on Jag-Lovers. The last time I looked there they had a used parts exchange.

Regards, John

: Interesting ideas from Mike, well worth looking into. Let's take a step

: back at look at the idea of a "spares day". Will it work in

: the U.S.?

: So do I think a "spares day" would work in the US? Yes! But it

: will have to be "American-ized". I doubt very much that the

: big spares days in the UK are not-for-profit. I would hazard a guess

: that the organizers or club who host it are charging fees and making

: profit. I therefore think that it will only work in the US if the

: private sector gets involved and runs it as a business venture. Who

: are the big used parts vendors in the US? Where are they located and

: would they interested in organizing-publicizing such a venture in

: conjunction with a Concours or slalom or vintage race etc.?

: It has to be somebody with a long term commitment too. I would be

: willing to bet that it took the UK spares days years to build it up

: to the gigantic proportions it is now.

: Steve is right about geography too. Most people will not want to travel

: more than a 100 miles or so to shop for spares, so it will have to be

: a regional thing with several happening across the country.

: As a northeast regional director I would be open to getting involved in

: organizing such a venture. Please start throwing names, locations,

: events at me!

: Daniel

Daniel,

I think you underestimate the desire of most Americans for a bargain. Obviously, you've never been to a US flea market or garage sale. Or better yet, a one day sale at a big department store. Americans will trample each other to death for a bargain.

That said, I do think you're right about the need to make some money in the deal. I don't know that the answer is a corporate sponsor though. I have seen general flea markets that charge for the space. As I suggested in my original post, commercial vendors could be charged a higher fee, members charged a lesser fee for a table top. Potential customers/shoppers could be charged a nominal entry fee (a few $$). I think, however, that the key to success is broadening it beyond club/JCNA limits and inviting the known vendors and the public to participate, both as sellers and buyers.

I do like the idea of running it in conjunction with another event, like a slalom or car show. And I do think that this will take a couple of years of repeating to really catch on. But I do think it could work, and work well, both as a way of generating interest within the club and exposing the club to potential new members.

Steve

: Interesting ideas from Mike, well worth looking into. Let's take a step

: back at look at the idea of a "spares day". Will it work in

: the U.S.?

: It has to be somebody with a long term commitment too. I would be

: willing to bet that it took the UK spares days years to build it up

: to the gigantic proportions it is now.

: Steve is right about geography too. Most people will not want to travel

: more than a 100 miles or so to shop for spares, so it will have to be

: a regional thing with several happening across the country.

: As a northeast regional director I would be open to getting involved in

: organizing such a venture. Please start throwing names, locations,

: events at me!

: Daniel

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is already an active auto-jumble network in the US, but it tends not to be as marque specific as Jaguar, for example. Twice a year, when Moss Motors sponsors their car shows in conjunction with one of the principal enthusiast groups (usually Triumph or MG), there is quite a line-up of vendors with everything from beat up old rusty bits to quite decent items (like the virtually new steering wheel I bought two years ago or $165; doesn't fit the E-Type hub, though). There are also vendors of ancillary paraphernalia like posters, stickers, models, etc., etc. Judging by the organized way they arrive and show their wares, they obviously do this on an almost weekly basis.

Mike Eck has had some vendors set up at the Jag-Lovers picnic. We should find out how successful that has been. Unless people are willing to part with their sheckels the vendors will decamp! (And I have a feeling decamp has been de-order of de-day!)

But this definitely is an event that has potential, especially in conjunction with another activity. Although I tend to think that a event like a rally would not do much to encourage browsing; it needs to be something that stays in one place, like a concours.

One final thought: this is something that would have virtually zero appeal for the owners of newer cars, which flies in the face of any trend towards club membership tending to move away from the classics and on to the current models.

Regards,

Warren

The Classic Jaguar Association and the Orange County Jaguar Club

(non-JCNA affiliated) have alternately hosted a Spring and Fall Jaguar

parts swap meet in Santa Ana, CA for 20 years or more. These events

receive wide publicity among the JCNA clubs in the SW region.

I believe that while JCNA could certainly assist in publicizing such

events, it should not necessarily sponsor them.

Dick Cavicke

JCNA SW Region Director

Interesting ideas from Mike, well worth looking into. Let's take a step back at look at the idea of a "spares day". Will it work in the U.S.?

A lot of things are different in England (in case you didn't notice!). For example, why do they have 20,000 members in the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club whereas we have trouble staying above 5,000? After all, I'll bet ten times more Jaguars were sold in the U.S. than in the UK. Are things that boring over there or are they just that much more fanatical?

Another point is that England is a relatively small place. Over there, they think a 3 or 4 hour drive is a big deal whereas here we have Pascal driving 25 hours just to attend a driving school.

Another point is that they have an "old world" mentality. It doesn't bother them to spend a whole day walking around poking their noses in crappy old parts just on the off chance they find something rare and useful. Americans have a much shorter attention span ie: "order me that new part and I want it yesterday...". The english are much more stingy too. They take pride in rehabilitating a rusty, bent old part and re-using it whereas the average American wants to buy something brand new, shiny and Made in Taiwan from Moss. I also think the English consider it to be some sort of adventure... you know, cold and raining and having a "spot of tea" whilst rummaging through rusty engine blocks....

So do I think a "spares day" would work in the US? Yes! But it will have to be "American-ized". I doubt very much that the big spares days in the UK are not-for-profit. I would hazard a guess that the organizers or club who host it are charging fees and making profit. I therefore think that it will only work in the US if the private sector gets involved and runs it as a business venture. Who are the big used parts vendors in the US? Where are they located and would they interested in organizing-publicizing such a venture in conjunction with a Concours or slalom or vintage race etc.?

It has to be somebody with a long term commitment too. I would be willing to bet that it took the UK spares days years to build it up to the gigantic proportions it is now.

Steve is right about geography too. Most people will not want to travel more than a 100 miles or so to shop for spares, so it will have to be a regional thing with several happening across the country.

As a northeast regional director I would be open to getting involved in organizing such a venture. Please start throwing names, locations, events at me!

Daniel

I have to agree with Steve on this...once every two years isn't really enough. And I'm certainly not transporting a bootload of spares to some far remote location to sell.

Here are a couple of ideas:

1) Regional Spares Day....this seems a pretty obvious way to organize. Perhaps done in conjuction with a rally or slalom event.

2) JCNA E-Bay auctions....why not? Perhaps if we have enough interest we could even get a listing discount, or else we could provide some sort of escrow service to pay expenses.

3) E-mail silent auction.

4) Proprietary E-Bay type service for members only.

The advantage of the online technique is that it's continuous, and you don't have to tote stuff around. Anyway, just some food for thought.

Meanwhile, in the process of developing my car, I've gone through several header designs. I probably have the largest collection of RHD E-Type header prototypes in North America. Any interest out there? I have to get my storage room emptied.

Mike Frank

: Not only is that an excellent idea, it is one that is being carried out

: even as we speak.

: Dennis Eynon, chairman of the 2003 Challenge Championship, has already

: scheduled a swap meet in conjunction with the CC in Phoenix this May.

: It will be held in the parking lot of the Phoenix Airport Marriott,

: our host hotel, Thursday May 1. You'll find a mention of it in the

: most recent issue of the Jaguar Journal.

: We hope you can attend.

: I think the regional swap meets should be the responsibility of the

: clubs involved.

: Mark Stephenson

: Jaguar Club of Central Arizona

: www.jcca.us

Mark,

Glad to hear that a swap meet is being scheduled as part of the 2003 CC. However, unless there is broader publication of the event and it is open to participation by people from outside those officially signed up for the CC, both available parts and interested buyers will be limited. Are you inviting commercial vendors to display their wares/close-outs/bargains as well? Hopefully, this will be an open event and advertised to the fullest, to maximize participation.

I disagree that this is something that the "clubs involved" should handle on their own. There was a recent discussion of Regional Directors' responsibilities. Perhaps we should expect our Regional Directors to work with and coordinate efforts between local clubs to get a program like this up and running. It is unrealistic to expect the Directors to be responsible for putting this together, but who better to contact the local clubs in his/her region, discuss participation and get designated point people from each club to get the ball rolling and keep it rolling.

IMHO.

Steve

Not only is that an excellent idea, it is one that is being carried out even as we speak.

Dennis Eynon, chairman of the 2003 Challenge Championship, has already scheduled a swap meet in conjunction with the CC in Phoenix this May. It will be held in the parking lot of the Phoenix Airport Marriott, our host hotel, Thursday May 1. You'll find a mention of it in the most recent issue of the Jaguar Journal.

We hope you can attend.

I think the regional swap meets should be the responsibility of the clubs involved.

Mark Stephenson

Jaguar Club of Central Arizona

www.jcca.us