Jag-Lovers / JCNA

I like the idea of the loop drives to the various places. HAving maps / directions is great. You guys are the locals you know the best places / roads. :-)

For ex. thursday, I'll probably use that time to go sightseeing... maybe we can have a group drive late morning on some scenic roads leading to where you're planning the sunset tour. Stop along the way in a couple of interesting locations, etc...

the idea of having the main event on the Sat and sun. is good of course for people in the region who just want to be there for the week end. for those coming from far, it's easier to travel on the week ends and have the week there, like in colorado. can't please everyone... :-)

I wonder how many will come from more than a day's drive ( 1000 miles + ) but I'm planning on driving sun/mon to get there... tuesday to rest... and Wed to visit a bit. because of the distance, it has to be "worth" it... :-) almost like a shame to drive 90% across the continent and not push it to the coast... or not making a side trip to the Grand Canyon or somthing... Actually, I just checked and it's closer than I thought, 2350 miles from Miami to Phoenix, barely more than Colorado Springs.

At Franklin, I'd say 30 / 35 cars took the the trip to Jack Daniel's.

Imagewise... the bus should be presented as an alternative... almost like fine print...

Pascal

OK, here's the latest. We are also having a setting up the three day advanced road course school at the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving. That is something people will arrange themselves. It's not an official part of the concours, but it will be held Monday through Wednesday, 4/28-30.

I have one paid for, (birthday present) but I might take it sooner so I can write up my experience.

I haven't spoken with Dennis about this specifically, but AFAIK, there is no requirement that you take the bus to the sites. The Land Rover tour won't be a ride in Land Rovers the whole way. We'd need fifty or more. What we have planned is a bus trip (or car drive) someplace away from the city, where we can park, give people a bouncy ride, and return. It will be at least an hour away.

The Jaguar test facility is also about an hour away from the main concours site.

We have the rally Friday, which will be a three hour trip from start to finish, then an hour and a half back.

So, I understand your point. I realize that the Thursday activities are sort of a prelude to the rest of the weekend. However, some people will only be able to take one day off work, others might only make it for Saturday and Sunday, so we have to have the premier events on the days most people can attend. We hope to encourage participation for the entire event by having one low entry fee for all events as opposed to a la carte as it has been in the past. (We do have a concours-only entry fee for people who just want to attend that, but if you compare that price to the overall it isn't that much less.)

For all the drives, there is no reason why I couldn't put together maps and directions of how to get there so people could drive their cars. In fact, I could make loop drives so that the road out would be different from the road back. I missed the distillery tour. How many cars made the trip so I know how much parking space we need?

"Mark 1" Mark Stephenson, Jaguar Club of Central Arizona

The Arizona Concours Weekend is coming...

JCSA Concours, Tucson, Oct. 26 / JCCA Concours, Phoenix, Oct. 27

For more information, visit www.jcca.us.

Entry Form : it will be on the site as soon as I get it.

I also plan on setting up an online registration form with paypal option just like for merchandise. I'll work this out with Nelson.

My point about promotion is that it takes more than an entry form to motivate people. It would be good to have an article in the Jan/Feb and March/April motivating people. For instance, I don't know how Terry Larson will be involved but sicne he is right there, I can only guess they'll be a few nice C. D. etc ... if that's the case, the word will need to go out early enough. same if any interesting guests like Norman Dewis will attend. We have to sell the JCC to members.

Options are important... yes some will enjoy the swap meet and other activities. However, a number of us will drive a large number of miles to get there. Others will spend a good amount of money to ship their car. Driving on different roads, seeing other scenery is part of the fun to many and why they will go to Phoenix. let's give them the option.

Pascal

PS

The Lime Rock driving school isn't sanctioned. Can't be. only concours, rally and slalom can be sanctioned... Might have been listed in the Journal Calendar but, just like the JTC annual tour, it wasn't listed on the site until... well... certain changes took place.

Your decision to use the online calendar as a source is good. it will simplify things and reduce errors or ommissions.

I agree that it is important to post all Challenge Championship information (and the entry form?)on the JCNA website ASAP. Few people realize that the event is EARLY - the beginning of May - and the entry form will be in the next Journal. All the art work is done and it only requires an okay from the chairman, Dennis Eynon, to get it on the website. Dennis is electronically challenged and is out of town this week so it will be up to us to get the word to him by phone.

RE events at the Challenge, not all of us need a driving fix every time we get up in the morning! :-) After all the discussion about making the swap meet a success, how about all of us supporting that? The driving event is on Friday. Rest up for a day.

Important non-sanctioned events are included in the Journal Calendar when there is room. Sanctioned events first. The Empire Lime Rock event is sanctioned ... sounds as though you did not know?

We now use the website as the primnary source for event listings in the Journal.

: Mark, Daniel

: one of the issue is that local clubs needs to do most of the work there

: and sometimes they just don't. JCNA is there to help, assist, etc...

: but it's also up to the local clubs to organize events like drives,

: picnics which I agree are fun.

: I always, and I know others do too, make it a point of mentioning

: upcoming events on the lists. This oftens brings out people to these

: events. So the tool is there, it's just too bad some clubs don't use

: it more.

: Very important will be the promotion of the 03 JCC, which I know Mark

: you are very involved with. Let's face it... promotion for Colorado

: and Franklin was awfull. Relying on the JJ is not enough as it will

: only reach current JCNA members. For Franklin, no material was given

: for the JCNA site, and none was requested. I sent in the series of

: articles I did for our site and newsletter to try to make noise. I

: know a number of people went to Franklin because we talked about it

: on the lists. It's crucial that in the months ahead of Phoenix,

: information gets updated and passed along, especially from Jan thru

: March where most people will make up their mind.

: The fun has to be emphasized. Not the formal competition if we want to

: bring in new blood. For instance on Thursday... I'm not driving 3000

: miles for a fashion show or a swap meet. We need to have an option

: like a drive or tour. Looking at the preliminary schedule, the fun

: factor needs to be added in if we want to bring in new people. The

: JCC is JCNA's showcase event, it is a major PR operation, let's send

: the right message ! Yes we need to provide bus transportation for

: those who understandably don't want to drive their trailer queens.

: nothign wrong with that. but let's not forget those that are driving

: to phoenix and want a little more.

: As I said, I aint' driving 3000 miles for a fashion show, a tour in a

: Land Rover or taking the bus to the Jaguar test facility... give us

: some options there. I'm sure if you add a tour to some scenic roads

: on Thursday, you will bring in more people. Remember the drive to the

: Jack Daniels distillery. some took the bus. Others had a blast on

: country roads... such drives are easy to organize. little planning

: involved beyond some route instructions and a place to eat.

: For other local events, promotion is key. Even for informal drives and

: non judged show. I always mention them and we often get extra people

: who are not(yet) members. but this is up the clubs to do their part.

: a final example... how did I hear about Limerock ? not thru JCNA. Not

: thru the Journal. thru Jag Lovers. heck, at the time non sanctioned

: event were not even allowed on the JCNA calendar !!!!

: I've been to the JL picnic 2 years in a row now, combining this with

: Limerock. It is a lot of fun. the drive thru the NJ back roads is a

: blast.

: we're moving in the right direction...

: Two things need to be developped hopefully next year... On Track

: activities in other regions and also more fun get togethers. Maybe

: with the rally program. Have a regional week end in each region with

: a concours on saturday and a nice drive on sunday. Sanctioned Rally

: for those who want to, just a drive for those who want to have fun.

: couple of hundred miles...end at a park or something for a casual

: late lunch. something fun.

: Pascal

Mark, Daniel

one of the issue is that local clubs needs to do most of the work there and sometimes they just don't. JCNA is there to help, assist, etc... but it's also up to the local clubs to organize events like drives, picnics which I agree are fun.

I always, and I know others do too, make it a point of mentioning upcoming events on the lists. This oftens brings out people to these events. So the tool is there, it's just too bad some clubs don't use it more.

Very important will be the promotion of the 03 JCC, which I know Mark you are very involved with. Let's face it... promotion for Colorado and Franklin was awfull. Relying on the JJ is not enough as it will only reach current JCNA members. For Franklin, no material was given for the JCNA site, and none was requested. I sent in the series of articles I did for our site and newsletter to try to make noise. I know a number of people went to Franklin because we talked about it on the lists. It's crucial that in the months ahead of Phoenix, information gets updated and passed along, especially from Jan thru March where most people will make up their mind.

The fun has to be emphasized. Not the formal competition if we want to bring in new blood. For instance on Thursday... I'm not driving 3000 miles for a fashion show or a swap meet. We need to have an option like a drive or tour. Looking at the preliminary schedule, the fun factor needs to be added in if we want to bring in new people. The JCC is JCNA's showcase event, it is a major PR operation, let's send the right message ! Yes we need to provide bus transportation for those who understandably don't want to drive their trailer queens. nothign wrong with that. but let's not forget those that are driving to phoenix and want a little more.

As I said, I aint' driving 3000 miles for a fashion show, a tour in a Land Rover or taking the bus to the Jaguar test facility... give us some options there. I'm sure if you add a tour to some scenic roads on Thursday, you will bring in more people. Remember the drive to the Jack Daniels distillery. some took the bus. Others had a blast on country roads... such drives are easy to organize. little planning involved beyond some route instructions and a place to eat.

For other local events, promotion is key. Even for informal drives and non judged show. I always mention them and we often get extra people who are not(yet) members. but this is up the clubs to do their part.

a final example... how did I hear about Limerock ? not thru JCNA. Not thru the Journal. thru Jag Lovers. heck, at the time non sanctioned event were not even allowed on the JCNA calendar !!!!

I've been to the JL picnic 2 years in a row now, combining this with Limerock. It is a lot of fun. the drive thru the NJ back roads is a blast.

we're moving in the right direction...

Two things need to be developped hopefully next year... On Track activities in other regions and also more fun get togethers. Maybe with the rally program. Have a regional week end in each region with a concours on saturday and a nice drive on sunday. Sanctioned Rally for those who want to, just a drive for those who want to have fun. couple of hundred miles...end at a park or something for a casual late lunch. something fun.

Pascal

Daniel,

I know you wanted to take this off list, but you make some interesting points that beg for a public response.

Aren't these the types of people we want in the JCNA -- energetic, engaged, and enthusiastic? Aren't these the types of events we'd like our local clubs to hold? Yes, what you say is happening, because there is a void in the Jag-Lovers organization -- a void that JCNA is perfectly suited to fill.

10% of the members do 90% of the work. This is almost axiomatic, to the point that if you add an energetic member, membership will rise by nine over the next couple years. If you lose one and nobody steps up, you'll lose nine. Add one energetic member to each of the clubs and JCNA membership will increase by nearly 600.

Mike Eck's NJ picnic and Brandon Shriver's Pocono Fall Tour are the exact things we'd like to see in JCNA clubs and regionally. Mike and Brandon are 10%ers. Rather than competition, they should be viewed as an opportunity. The events don't have to be limited to JCNA members, but what if nearby clubs handed out membership applications. Clubs would still have their own members-only events which would be an incentive for people to join.

Jag-Lovers like Mike and Brandon organize these events because they want to meet other Jaguar enthusiasts. Having organized three or four drives, I know that the greatest reward I can have is high participation. With JCNA behind Mike and Brandon, even if it's just to publicize the event, turnout would be imnproved. So, even from their point of view, organizing a drive in conjunction with the JCNA would be a win-win because of increased participation.

This is what I'm proposing, just on a grander scale with cross-referencing between JCNA and Jag-Lovers.

You are correct, Daniel, that if we don't provide what members want, they will migrate elsewhere. JCNA can view Jag-Lovers as competition and set up an us vs. them mentality which will surely lose us members.

We can ignore them, which seems to be the status quo (not because of any conscious decision), which will have a trickle effect as the individual Jag-Lovers create their own events to fill a void that JCNA is not offering to fill. If more of those occur and the outflow increases, it will eventually lead to us viewing them as competition.

Or, we can embrace them as the excellent source of on-line help that they are, and have them embrace us as America's hands-on, face-to-face, get out and do stuff organization.

"Mark 1" Mark Stephenson, Jaguar Club of Central Arizona

The Arizona Concours Weekend is coming...

JCSA Concours, Tucson, Oct. 26 / JCCA Concours, Phoenix, Oct. 27

For more information, visit www.jcca.us.

: The "pattern" has already occured on a very limited scale, but

: it looks like this: a person joins the forums on Jag-Lovers and finds

: them very informative and helpful. They develop a rapport and

: comraderie with other people on the forum. They decide to move the

: relationship from virtual to physical and propose a "drive"

: or a "picnic" or a "tour". As these things pick

: up steam more and more people join in and pretty soon we've got a

: formal entity that can and will compete with the local clubs and JCNA

: for the consumer's dollar and affection.

Sorry I didn't get a chance to elaborate on my earlier posting. Work gets in the way sometimes!

My point, although badly explained, was echoed in Steve's reply. In the long run, I think potential car club members look at value; what value are they getting from membership in JCNA, in their local club and in Jag-Lovers? If they do not perceive value in the product, they will migrate elsewhere.

The "pattern" has already occured on a very limited scale, but it looks like this: a person joins the forums on Jag-Lovers and finds them very informative and helpful. They develop a rapport and comraderie with other people on the forum. They decide to move the relationship from virtual to physical and propose a "drive" or a "picnic" or a "tour". As these things pick up steam more and more people join in and pretty soon we've got a formal entity that can and will compete with the local clubs and JCNA for the consumer's dollar and affection.

Bottom line: if they're not getting what they want at JCNA/local club they will seek it elsewhere.

So Steve is right; JCNA must move quickly to expand its product offering and demonstrate leadership in enabling local clubs to offer more and more "physical" events that will help attract and retain members. Jag-Lovers can and should continue to grow with the goal of becoming the most effective virtual resource for Jaguar related information on the web. With forethought, planning and ACTION the two entities could co-exist to the mutual long run benefit of both.

I'm going to move this discussion off-list for a few days so if you have comments or ideas please email them to me. I'll be back with a recap.

Daniel

I agree that the J-L doesn't pose a threat to the JCNA but not for the reasons you cited. If we look at the interests of the two groups, you are right in your assumption that the J-L lists are primarily devoted to the "hands on" do it yourself crowd with a smaller percentage interested in face to face. The J-L has grown in a few short years from a handful to thousands of contributors and recipients.

They cater to a need for imformation for these folks and do a good job of it.

The JCNA needs to concentrate on their goal of social interaction that most local club members want. The local clubs put on activities that attract these people. The JCNA should be helping the local clubs with more of these "social activities" by funding them and providing aid in the form of "how to" documentation garnered from the people who have sucessfully organized these events.

To some degree, the slalom group shares this information, but what about touring, gymkanas, swap meets, etc. that also serve to get the members out and participating?

The number of participants in the Northeast Tour this year doubled and probably will again next year. As these events get broader participation they become more costly to up front fund than the individual organizers can afford. Thats something that the JCNA is positioned to provide and it takes no effort on the part of the board.

The JCNA leadership (with some exceptions )is a bit like fog... It just "sits there on it's little cat feet and waits".

This forum is not a great place to voice ideas because so few of the JCNA directors are internet savy or participate. The few who do are in a minority position and are not able to influence the board because of its size and the fact that three members are not elected anyway. (rant)

Time to go wrench...