Secondary Throttle Spindle Seal replacement

David,

BTW, as I mentioned before, be VERY careful is buying a setup used. Make sure that is actually came off an E-type (preferably a 4.2L car). The SU setups off of the 420's and the like will NOT work on the E-type, as they will make contact with the bonnet. The E-type setup is canted downward to clear the bonnet. The setup from a 3.8 will work on a 4.2, but you have to block off a couple of the water passages that don't line up with the 4.2.

Steve

Jeff,

I was over at Joe Curto's yesterday and he mentioned that he had spoken to you and was helping you out with the secondary shafts and seals. He's a good guy and yes, he is VERY knowledgeable. I took the Strombergs from my Ser. III over to him for a rebuild. I had done them myself a couple of years ago, but not happy with how they were performing, so I'm having him do them over the right way.

David,

I got the triple SU setup from someone in Connecticut, of an ad on the Jag-lovers website (www.jag-lovers.org). You can check around various sites (here on the JCNA site, Jag-lovers, Ebay, etc.) and they come up from time to time. I also posted a want ad on the Jag-lovers site and got some responses. You can contact some of the used parts specialist such as Stefan Roundy (stefanrbealenet.com) and see if they might have some. I know that Terry Lippincott, a Jag mechanic in PA (610-678-6775) has access to used sets as well. My setup came off a 4.2L Ser. 2 car, so they bolted right on to my car without modifications. I took the setup to Joe Curto and had him rebuild the carbs before I installed them.

If you want a new set, several of the usual suspects sell them (Terry's Jags, XK's, SNG Barratt) sell the Burlen SU conversion kit that comes complete with manifold, carbs, linkage, etc. All you need to buy in addition are the trumpets, plenum and air filter canister, which are available used. Or you can go with SU chrome pancake filters. Watch the ads, as the new kit is very expensive. But it's also very nice.

Hope that helps.

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
'72 E-type 2+2
'70 XKE FHC

Steve:
I spoke with Joe Curto this morning (boy is he knowledgable) I mentioned you name and he said to say "Hello!", Anyway, the scondary throttle shafts I removed were toast. Very badly worn in bushing area and one was cracked at the screw hole.
Joe told me that the 'secondary' throttle shafts ARE NOT identical to the carb shafts in that the slots on the secondary shafts are larger to accomodate the thicker throttle plate fouond in the secondary.
Fortunately Joe had a pair of used secondary shafts in stock and in very good condition. He also had the seals... so I should be in good shape. I'll try installing them tonight and see how it goes.
Jeff

Steve
Could I ask where you got your 3 SU set-up or if you know of any good possible sources to check. So far all of the parts I have needed were from the new part vendors such as Terry's, XK's etc.

Well, I got the secondary throttle shafts removed. The shafts are badly worn, and one of the them is actually cracked adjacent to the screw hole use to secure the throttle plate. Since they're supposed to be identical to the carb shafts I shouldn't have trouble getting a pair from one of the usuals. It was tough getting the old seal out (what was left of it) without damaging the brass retaining seat. But a sewing needle for removing and a Qtip with a little carb cleaner on it for cleaning appeares to have done the job. Looks to me like the seal should be nothing more than an o-ring. Thought long and hard about just plugging the holes, but I think I would have to remove the secondary manifold in order to seal them properly (i.e. drill & tap them) and I'l like to avoid removing it... so onward...

David,

No question -- the triple SU's are definitely more powerful than the old Strombergs, even with the secondaries wide open. Seat of your pants feel the difference. I've yet to get them properly balanced and I'm having some other minor problems that need fixing, but the time, effort and money to make the conversion were definitely worth it.

I have not changed the cams or made any other modifications at this point. I expect to change the distributor as it really needs a vacuum advance rather than the stock vacuum retard distributor that came with the Ser. II. I'll probably go with a Lucas, but I'm considering possibly a Crane. I think the Lucas with a Petronix fitted will work really nicely.

My triple SU's came with the trumpets and plenum. Picked up a canister and new filter and related parts and the whole thing went together nicely. The trick is to get a setup off of a 4.2 E-type. Whatever you do, don't by the setup from anything other than an E-type, otherwise you'll have a bonnet interference problem.

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
'72 E-type 2+2
'70 XKE FHC

Steve
When I removed the secondary butterflys from my '68 with the 2 Stromberg set-up I noticed quite an improvement in throttle response and acceleration. I have heard that the 3 SU set-up has much better performaance than the Strombergs but have also heard that without the secondaries installed the Strombergs can flow as much air as the XK engine can handle in series II form. Since your series II appears to have had all 3 variations can you tell a big difference between the 3 SU's and the Stomberg system without active secondaries ? When you changed yours over to the SU's did you have to change cams or any other parts besides the carbs and manifolds ? I have thought about this swap ever since I bought my 1.5 E but am wondering if it is really going to give me much better performance than the configuration I have now.

1974 XKE OTS
2000 S-Type V8
Someone else has also recommended Joe Curto for rebuilding carbs, and I agree.He rebuilt SU's for me for my Morgan a few years ago and they came back better than original. He's currently doing some for a friend in the Morgan club. But he is busy at this time of year because everybody wants to get their cars on the road for spring, so be prepared for a few week's wait. But you'll be pleased with his work, I am sure.

Steve:
Even if I decide not to use the secondary throttles, I still have to fix the leak around the shafts (can't have a vacuum leak). Since I would like to avoid removing the secondary manifold it would seem that it would be easier to remove the shafts and install new seals rather than drill and tap the holes for sealing (which would definitely require removing the manifold) - once I've done that it's only a matter of reconnecting the linkages to have them operable. So why not?

I thought about rebuilding the carbs myself - but my wife wasn't happy about the kitchen table idea... Kidding aside, the cost of having them rebuilt by someone else, compared to the price of the rebuilding kit (plus my time to do it), is not that much. Some things are better left to the experts. I remember spending several loooooong days replacing the rear shocks and springs without removing the IRS from the car... nobody ever tells you that the nuts on the bolts on the top of the springs - those towards the rear of the car - are almost impossible to get to....
I'll let you know how the carb project turns out!

Jeff,

William's suggestions are good ones. I had wired my secondaries open after I got my Ser. II ('70 FHC) last year ('til I changed them for triple SU's). The secondaries had something to do with the emissions during warm up, but as a practical matter, are of no real use. You can remove the butterfly plate and leave the shaft or just wire them in the full open position.

Yes, you should address the leak around the shafts. William is right -- Rebuilding ZS's is relatively easy. You can get kits with all the needed parts from most of the "usual suspects" (Terry's Jags, XK's Unlimited, SNG Barratt, Welsh Enterprises). Pick up the book on rebuilding Webber/ZS and SU carbs. (Available on Amazon.com or other book sellers. I've seen it in Barnes & Noble.) It has a good section showing step by step how to rebuild the Strombergs, with plenty of pictures. I rebuilt the ones on my '72 (4 of them) following their instructions and it was not hard. Do them one at a time so you don't mix the parts up. One evening's work on the kitchen table. The kit should include new bushings/seals for the butterfly shafts. If the secondaries are leaking, chances are the primaries are too. Change all of them while you are at it (or remove the secondary shafts and plug the holes.

If you are intent on sending them out for rebuild, I'd suggest Joe Curto in College Point, NY (Queens, near the Whitestone Bridge). Contact me off list if you want his number.

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
'72 E-type 2+2
'70 XKE FHC

The benefit of the secondary throttles is vague, many people simply block them open or even remove them. Why not try rebuilding your carbs yourself?they are quite straightforward.

Jaguar affectionado and etc.