With particular reference to the cleanliness deductions. On the engine compartment you can loose 40 for cleanliness for Cam covers, carb domes but only 20 for the sheet metal work. A cracked exhaust manifold only earns max 6 points the same as a faded colour on the engine block but a badly scratched cam cover could earn max 10. Externally on the car the body and boot both carry max deduction of only 26 for cleanliness while the wheels carry a max of 20 and internally if you have dirty seats they get special treatment with a bonus deduction of 28 points. ItÆs just not in proportion.

Bob.
92 V-12 VDP Black Cherry

Submitted by peddlarbob@sym… on Thu, 02/17/2005 - 09:43

Just in case anybody is following this. After the remark of Steve's about the BOD giving out company cars I volunteered off list to help out so that I can get one to. I would like a charcoal gray with black interior XJ350 please.

Bob.
92 V-12 VDP Black Cherry

Submitted by cleavefamily@c… on Tue, 02/15/2005 - 01:07

Bob,
I have researched the origial 1976 rule book and the '83, 84 with '85 and '88 amendments. Its remarkable how similar the score sheets have remainded the same over the years even though major changes have been made from time to time. Not that that's a reason not to change things. We are making tremendous progress in our (JCNA's) effort to improve the scoring and judging at these events, but there is much work to do and so few wiling to work on specific items. JCRC has spent many hours on a proposal to revise Chapter VI. I have spent many hours on the score sheets with the help of the committe and others. Next year we hope to produce a condition and cleanliness guide to improve the uniformity of deductions continent wide. This is a major problem and is being addressed, as previous proposals have, in the order of importance. Eventually we should take a look at the score sheets for balance. If you contact me directly off line, I will send you the originals in Microsoft Excel so that you can have a crack at balancing the imbalances that you see. Otherwise this will have to wait until next year, or the year after, as we can't change everything in one year lest we have nothing to do in the future, besides the pay isn't that great, although I understand the BOD is considering giving us company cars.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
\'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC\'s

Submitted by cleavefamily@c… on Tue, 02/15/2005 - 00:40

Bob,
Thanks for your totals. I've worked all day and I'm tired. I found my error and yours. The score sheets do add up to 1000 as I thought. On the Engine sheet I erroniously got 36 points for the exhaust (5x6 = 30 not 36 as I previously totalled to get 1006.

You are adding the the 25 points for the Top, Side Curtains, Tonneua, & Boot Cover (which states "OTS/DHS Only No Salloons" to your total for sheet #2. The difference in the totals on the left hand side where there are two columns for maximum deductions, one for DHC/OTS and one for SAL & FHC is 25 points. This is a common mistake and results in an additinal 25 points when adding the left hand side SAL/FHC deductions.

I have gone all the way back to 1997 and the maximum point deductions are exactly the same, except for the Operation Verification section which now totals 70 points as did the original 1979 version albeit then called "Mechanical (functional)".

Again thanks for your concern.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
\'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC\'s

Submitted by peddlarbob@sym… on Tue, 02/15/2005 - 00:27

Steve. Not trying to become a pain in the ass to you guys but can that be considered an adequate excuse for not making improvements. I thought we were trying to make a concerted effort to improve the scoring and judging at these events and if we are going to all the effort to issue better score sheets. Would this not be a good time to also introduce better and improved proportionate scoring at the same time.

Bob.
92 V-12 VDP Black Cherry

Submitted by cleavefamily@c… on Mon, 02/14/2005 - 23:17

Bob,
It's been that way for years, there's been no change in those maximum deductions. I just checked all deductions from the 2001 edition and they are the same except for the changes in the opreration verification box, which now totals 70 points to make up for the 10 points lost when the 10 point maximum for windscreens wipers was dropped. Per my previous reply I am still searching older score sheets to see when/where/why the extra 6 points came into being.
Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2 and other LBC's