I need help and advise on figuring this one out !

Hi,

Thanks, for the advise on the pressure regulator. I'm not ready to go through the gas vapor evacuation bit again. I made a venturi and ran it at the end of my exhaust with the positive discharge of a shop vac. It worked great! I had no other choice since all mechanic shops would not touch that problem with a ten foot pole. I will order a new regulator prior to starting. I also did oil the cylinders. Once I get this baby running...I'm going to put it on e-bay. I really want a 60s vintage E Type Coupe (with carbs, no computers and 6 cylinders that I can get at! Bill, it looks like you called this one early on!

James

Hello James, I can most definitely say the overfueling was not caused by the broken vacuum line. It still sounds like a bad pressure regulator, if this is the case, as soon as the pump works it will start flooding again. A pressure gauge test is the only way to be sure BEFORE you try starting the car. Also when you are ready to turn it over, disconnect the coils so that there is no spark present, By the way, did you drop some oil into the spark plug holes? Jaguar affectionado and etc.

Just an update on the problem:
I was able to evacuate the gasoline and fumes from the left side exhaust system and checked for spark on the left bank with a healthy blue spark. I changed oil and filter and will now add fuel to the tank (MT) and re-try hoping that it was the broken connection at the vaccum line on the left fuel regulator that caused this massive gasoline flooding of my engine. Just in case, I will have a large fire extinguisher ready. Wish me luck!

James

welcome aboard in advance and I hope that your problem gets solved quickly. I encourage you to attend the club functions. These functions bring out some very expert individuals who have rebuilt all manner of Jags. They might be more help than any other source.

Thanks Brenda,

I need all the resources I can get. There is a strong lack of enthusiasm for my local mechanics to look at the XJS, let alone fix it. I'll join today!

James

Hi James

Are you a member of Jaguar assoc of New England? If so you can ask the experts at Wellesley Jaguar via our monthly newsletter. This dealership has agreed to take questions from our members and answer them in the next monthly issue. If you are a member email your question to davedvpratt.com make the subject line JANE ask the experts column. If you are not a member you can sign up at our web site. www.j.a.n.e.org.

Good luck
Brenda

Thanks, I'm trying to locate a mechanic in my area (Cape Cod, Mass.) who will consider the job. After a week of ventilating there are still traces of some wet fuel at the exhaust connections. Therefore, I did not check the ignition system. I was thinking of using the blower end of a shop vac in the outlet end of exhaust pipe to speed up the evaporating process. The vac would be distanced with a long hose and I would ventilate the crankcase. That way there would be no fumes introduced to the shop vac motor.

In looking for anything obvious, such as a loose wire, etc., I noticed that that there is what appears to be a vacuum line on the fuel regulator (left side)that is broken at the plastic tube union. Could this have been part or all of my problem? I'm not sure how the vacuum interacts with the ability of the fuel regulator to return excess fuel pressure back to the tank??

Is there an inline fuse or disconnect for the fuel pump in order to allow myself or the mechanic to test the ignition system without loading the system with fuel again? I have ordered a manual on disc and hopefully I will get it soon so I don't have to burden you folks with all these questions.

Thanks,
James

James,
Dick is correct in his assessment of the problem. Check the archives on jag-lovers.org for the Marelli ignition problems. Once the fuel has flooded the one bank, fires are common. Be Careful!! If it were me, I would have the car towed to your mechanic....

Bill Cooper
1992 XJS V-12, 1995 XJR, 1985 Sovereign, 2000 VDP

The fuel is only on the left side. I will disable the fuel pump to eliminate more fuel being added while I crank the engine on my ignition troubleshooting process. Also I will change the oil again as well. Once I repair the problem, I am a little concerned about any residual fuel in the exhaust. The car has been sitting outside for almost 7 days now. Hopefully that is enough time for the fuel to evaporate from tyhe exhaust system. I will let you know how I make out. Thanks for your help and suggestions.
Jim

Michael the simplest of things can be dangerous, it depends on understanding what you are doing. This method is something that is used often in the Industry. It is impossible to get spray in your eye as it sprays down, also the rail is not raised out of the V and the rags are right below the injectors. If the ignition is disconnected there can be no spark. Of course as I said it depends on who is doing it! As I previously said this is a job that should be taken to a professional, BUT. By the way, in order to see the fuel leaking out at the flanges the convertors would have to be full of gas??? regards Jaguar affectionado and etc.

You've received two suggestions that are simply ridiculous:

1) Filling the exhaust system with water won't work, for several reasons:

a) The tailpipe loops over the rear axle, so you will never be able to drain the center section of the exhaust, assuming you could ever get it filled.
b) Who knows what will happen if the cat becomes waterlogged?
c) If you get water all the way up to the motor, you can actually bend a rod when you start it up, because water is incompressible.

2) Removing the fuel rail to observe the injectors. Maybe the single most dangerous suggestion I've ever seen posted to a list. Yeah, keep a fire extinguisher handy. Also beware of the high pressure spray, which can inject itself right into your skin.

You should be able to observe (as with your eyes) which bank is leaking, since it's getting past the exhaust flanges. If not, simply remove the plugs and observe their condition. It should be obvious which side is failing. I would guess that if you inspect the distributor, you will find the culprit is a burned rotor or cap.

As for the exhaust, the best thing is to remove it and drain the fuel. You will have to replace the catalytic converter, because once it warms up, any fuel that's soaked into the matrix will want to burn. This will surely ruin the cat.

As awful as all this sounds, you may not have a huge cost here...replacing the cat and fixing your ignition problem should be the worst of it.

Do not put water in the system, simply drain it out as suggested and evaporation will take care of the rest. i am still interested in your problem. Is only one side leaking or Both? pull out the easy to reach spark plugs and see how they look. Also as I said drain out the Oil pan. The service manual will help but this is a complicated system so go slowly and surely. The real answer initially is to lift up the fuel rail with injectors attached and put rags or such like under each injector, then, ensuring the ignition system is disconnected, prime the system (turn the key to position two only 5 0r 6 times -do not go to the start position-), -if fuel sprays out then STOP it should not-. this will charge the fuel rails. Now go to the start position and see if the injectors spray. Be careful as you are dealing with potential dangers. It is worthwhile having a fire extingusher handy! Let us know the answer Jaguar affectionado and etc.

I just received some interesting advise on clearing the fuel from the exhaust system of which would entail jacking the front end od the car to create an elevated nose. Then filling the exhaust with water hose in amounts that would only fill to the catalytic converter (how would I know that?)and letting the water drain back carrying the gas with it. This sounds risky to me beacause I do not want to feed water back through the exhaust valves. I just ordered a service manual in order to best determine how to test the ignition components. I also have the challenge of doing this testing without having additional fuel entering the exhaust system. This is my first and only Jag. It truely has made me pay for the thrill of driving it. I guess having a Jag is kind of like being married to a psychotic trophy wife. The car is out of the garage and thank god I saw the fuel on the ground prior to my daughter turning over the engine while I checked for a SPARK (I have no sense of smell and my daughter is only 6)

Dick is exactly right. I think you will find that your ingition system has failed, causing one bank to not fire. Unfortunately, a V12 motor will keep humming along when this happens, on half power. The other half simply becomes a pump for unburned fuel, which will collect in your exhaust sytem. You'll need to get your exhaust system blown out, and possibly have a catalytic converter replaced. Then they'll have to fix your ignition system.

Better push that thing out of the garage for now.

Hello James, you should probably get a mechanic to help you as it sounds as though you have a more complicated problem. If it were just a regulator it would affect both banks. From your description it seems that only one bank has flooded,if it were an injector problem it would affect three cylinders on each bank! If it were a camshaft sensor or a coil malfunction it would not fire on one bank, but the fuel would just pass through the system and come out the tail pipe. The ammount of fuel you describe seems excessive excessive, perhaps a cold start injector stuck open? It is also possible that if the car was driven for a long period the Catalytic convertor would restrict the fuel egress and is would build up in the exhaust system. It might also be a combination of things. Your battery should be disconnected, take off the NEGATIVE! terminal. I have seen this situation a number of times, once when an ECU malfunctioned the engine stalled because the cylinder bores "FILLED" with fuel. On one occasion due to a fuel contaminated oil sump, an engine blew its self apart! Really apart- the oil pan and front covers were ripped off and the valve covers were split open. When you see this kind of result you never forget it! Jaguar affectionado and etc.

I want to thank both of you for your suggestions. After reading your responses, I was going to do the easiest thing first by checking for spark on the left side. I quickly decided not to do that after observing a huge puddle of gasoline under my left muffler that had been dripping out over the entire day. Now I have a potential bomb on my hands. I guess I will have to tow the car and dismantle my exhaust system and drain the oil because it too is loaded with gas as well. I failed to mention that I have no sense of smell due to high organic chemical exposure in my previious life.

Dick, the reason I suggested overfueling is because he said he used a huge amount of fuel and saw a lot of smoke from the exhaust, if it were only an ignition problem he would smell the raw fuel and there would be little smoke (no ignition). I WOULD NOT advise running the engine at all until it is verified that the oil is not contaminated. Jaguar affectionado and etc.

From the year range you car is, sounds like your Marrelli ignition has failed on one bank. This would cause the lack of power and smoke only on one side. 20/50 is just fine on the engine and what I run year round on my V12 cars. The ignition could have failed through the rotor, cap, coil or amplifiers or just a connection. Before you have it towed, pull and replace all of the ignition connectors and crank up the car. If the car was overfueled, there is gas in the oil. For a short trip, it is probably not enough to cause a problem. But before you change it, fix the problem or it will just contaminate the new oil.

I live in New England, and was advised of the multi weight because of the wide range of temperatures here. I was told that the cold oil on a 20/50 will have a viscosity of 20 and as it heats up, the polymers in the oil would convert the oil viscosity to 50. My oil pressure when the engine was hot was 25 psi at a500 RPM and very low at idle with a straight 30 weight oil.

Where is the fuel regulator located and what pressure should I be reading there? Thanks for your quick response.

The oil change likely had nothing to do with it. It seems like an overfueling problem, a bad fuel regulator is the most likely reason but you have to get the system tested before starting the car. The high oil level is most likely caused by gasoline seeping into the sump via the cylinders, smell the oil! The contaminated oil has to be drained out before you restart the engine! You initially said you changed to a 20/50 to help raise oil pressure, 20/50 is a compromise oil! What climate do you live in? Here in Los Angeles I use only single grade oils, 30W for normal use and 40W for older engines. Jaguar affectionado and etc.