Challenge Championship - Why no significant participation?

....I think there is big difference there... It means that recruitment efforts rest mostly on the local clubs shoulders, not on the national club. Now it doesnÔÇÖt mean that national shouldnÔÇÖt do something about getting new members but what the effort has to be focused at the local level....

Pascal. No matter at what level you want to put the requirement to recruit at, the organization that has been landed with that responsibility has to have more than just a promise of receiving a Bi-monthly Jaguar Journal and local club news letter to entice them in.

I can tell you first hand that prospective new members donÔÇÖt care much about what clubs get what insurance or the accurate counting of activity points. In fact you don't even have to join a JCNA affiliated Jaguar club nowadays to exchange stories or maintenance tips with each other. There are lots of other very active British car clubs around and a multitude of on line chat pages where they can effectively do that.

As mentioned before, because of personality problems experienced in the past with the current home club President. I don't presently belong to my local JCNA affiliated club. His choice not mine. I do however belong to two other such British car clubs where not one of the Jaguar guys from either of these clubs believe that it would be worth their while joining a JCNA affiliated club. Most of them have already been approached at one time or other by the guys from the Toronto club at shows they have attended and the majority have chosen to reject the idea immediately.

The tools I am suggesting you make available to whomever in your view is responsible for the recruitment process are there just for the asking and that is why I just don't understand why JCNA would not want to take full advantage of such an valuable opportunity. Heck everything they have tried so far has reaped zero results for the club. Why not just consider for one moment that a fresh mind might just have presented you with something that might just work.

Donkeys are really stubborn animals. You can push on their rear ends until you are ready to drop and if they don't want to move they ainÔÇÖt going too. Now hang a carrot on a stick and dangle it out in front of them and if he wants to take a bite out of it you will not even have to raise a sweat to get him to go. In fact he will immediately go into a trot trying to catch up to it and you will have to hold tight to slow him down. People are constructed that way too.

I do know a little about this type of situation having been in marketing and sales all my adult life.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

"Cliff...Sorry but it was directly connected. Increase membership in JCNA will possibly result in higher attendance at JCNA's CC's and other national events. Apparently the vast majority of the existing JCNA membership is absolutely complacent on the idea of attending such events. So to improve on the attendance numbers your are now forced to look elsewhere for solutions. Re increasing membership numbers"

Bob, i think you are missing something about JCNA and the clubs.

unlike other national clubs where members join the national who in turn sends in the membership and a portion of the dues to local chapters, in our case, the local clubs are in charge. Members join the local club who turns in a portion of the dues to JCNA.

i think there is big difference there... It means that recruitment efforts rest mostly on the local clubs shoulders, not on the national club. Now it doens't mean that national shoudln't do something about getting new members but what the effort has to be focused at the local level.

Pascal

PS: appologies to our Canadians and Mexican friends, it's faster to type National and it's the word used by most other clubs...

Cliff. Never for one minute did I ever want to try and detract from the recognition that you and all the other organizers of this latest Canadian Challenge deserve for the tremendous efforts you obviously all put into it. My hat is off to all of you.

Tax laws for non profit organizations even in Delaware do not limited benefits received by club members that are offered directly to those members by non associated interests. Hence it was perfectly okay for JCNA club membership to take full advantage of the Jaguar Corporations discount offer without jeopardizing JCNA existence or non profit tax status. It would also be the same as lets say if Leatherique or ColorPlus were to extend similar discounts to JCNA members to what they used to offer to the Rolls Royce club. Don't know whether either company still has this policy in place. I have just used them as examples.

I am tired of grooming this horse, so I will now move on.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

No problem, Bob. Call it what you wish.

Fact is, I was so invested in the JCC for 9 months of my life that I too wondered why more didn't participate. I figured more members in the Midwest would make the time to attend. I knew then that we were appealing to a captive audience of about 6000. I also knew that I didn't have time to grow the membership 10% or more in order to have a broader population to market. So, I'll take issue with the timeframe under discussion and grant you the balance of your dialog.

There's probably a better way to type it, but I was focused on the subject topic because I had no time to grow membership (everyone's job). As you might expect, our exposure on the Circle resulted in some Jag owners joining our club afterward.

I'm also coming to learn more about the purposes for which we were formed as a non-profit org. Perhaps your "loss to understand" is related to the environments we each live in. JCNA was incorporated under the laws of Delaware and it's likely that UK and Canadian (tax) laws treat "expanding benefits" differently. Once again I defer to those more qualified than me and will go back to Mark's synopsis on Jan 16 to focus on this topic.

I appreciate everyone's input. Really.

Cliff
JAGIN

Edited on 2008-01-24 14:19:31

.....But we're on different pages. I'm trying to deal with the subject topic but you have changed the question to "how do you attract additional membership to JCNA..." Us linear thinkers have trouble following the thread when it departs onto other tracks....

Cliff...Sorry but it was directly connected. Increase membership in JCNA will possibly result in higher attendance at JCNA's CC's and other national events. Apparently the vast majority of the existing JCNA membership is absolutely complacent on the idea of attending such events. So to improve on the attendance numbers your are now forced to look elsewhere for solutions. Re increasing membership numbers.

.... I for one am focusing on growth in my club and open to ideas that comport with US law....

Are you suggesting that the discounts that Jaguar offered to JCNA members in 2007 were not as you say "comport with US law". Because that is exactly what I have suggested but involving other additional establishments supplying services directly related to our Jaguar interests.

Fact is I am at an absolute total loss to understand what it is that makes you fellows so adamantly against expanding the benefits offered to your membership. Especially considering that it would not cost the club one red cent to do so. Perhaps you donÔÇÖt think they are worth it.

With respect. I also think the term is ÔÇ£tunnel visionÔÇØ. You can only see one thing at a time, not the over all picture.

I am left in total wonderment and like you I am done with it all now.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Bob,
I'm familiar with the Swatch story and appreciate your interest in sharing the fun we have with more people. But we're on different pages. I'm trying to deal with the subject topic but you have changed the question to "how do you attract additional membership to JCNA..." Us linear thinkers have trouble following the thread when it departs onto other tracks.

I haven't seen your data re why the vast majority haven't joined JCNA. Could it be that they've never heard of us? Could it be that they have but aren't interested? Maybe their company leases the Jaguar and they're happy using it to get between point A and B?

I too like the Victoria Club's approach and wish all clubs had their level of enthusiasm. I'm encouraged that we formed 3 new clubs last year. I for one am focusing on growth in my club and open to ideas that comport with US law.

Thanks,
Cliff

Some may recognize the significance of this story, others will not.

The Swiss watch cartel was an association made up from representatives of every wristwatch manufacture in Switzerland. This Cartel controlled and dictated policy that found Swiss watch manufactures holding solidly on to 87% of the world market for wristwatches. Some enterprising designer within this Cartel came up with the idea for a digital wristwatch. It was submitted to the cartel council for approval and was turned down as not being something they wanted their members to pursue nor was it something they believed the market wanted.

Japan picked up on the idea shortly after this and launched it on the world. It took off like a rocket and in doing so managed over a short period of time to shrink the Swiss watch Cartels share of the world market to only 15%. Cutting a long story short. Switzerland eventually countered by launching their own digital watch under the marketing name of Swatch but this action was taken by them much too late to regain their market share and the result was that Swiss manufactures have only managed to recover to the tune 23% of the world market. Nowhere near what they controlled before this all took place. Whereas once they were regarded as the force that controlled the industry, they are now only a minor player. This story is repeated over an over again in any area you want to consider. Anyone thinking the auto industry.

Moral to this story. The market for anything, product or service goes in cycles and you have to be flexible in your both your thinking and your actions in order to stay on top of it. History dictates that any organization that just sits on their laurels rigidly staying the course will eventually find themselves on the outside looking in.

You have two really good examples in front of you to examine. One being that the JCNA membership figures having been stagnated out at around 6,000 for a number of years now. The other being the obvious outstanding performances that a club like that of Victoria BC club can achieve with a just a little bit of open mindedness and forward thinking towards catering directly to peoples individual and collective needs.

Whether existing members are pleased with the benefits that JCNA presently offers is not the subject of this discussion. You are already members, so you are obviously very satisfied or you would not have paid to renew your membership.

What is in question is how do you attract additional membership to JCNA and its associated clubs. The vast majority of Jaguar Owners in North America have clearly indicated to you that you donÔÇÖt offer enough at present to make them want to join or they would have joined already. So you either come up with something new to draw them in or you just remain content with your existing 6,000 membership. I just offered one suggestion but there are other alterantives.

Period.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Cliff, I totally agree with esp your 1st paragraph, I believe the vast majority of JCNA Members do also, go where you want , play when you want,pay when you want,
BFN, Art

Such a simple question, but so many tangents and side agendas. We're celebrating our 50th anniversary this year and some are planning the funeral. Why the focus on getting more from JCNA? Daddy taught me you get what you pay for. I'm happy to pay JCNA $22 of my club dues for the magazine and the opportunity to show up at events within range if they fit in my schedule. I find I can afford all that I attend 8^) If JCNA became a one-stop shop, would my dues go down? Right! The present set-up has enabled me to meet many nice folks from around NA.

In short, while on this tangent, I commend the volunteers who create opportunities that, it seems, only the enthusiasts participate in. I suspect we could turn this into a business, hire part-timers to cater to us, but I also suspect that wouldn't end the quibbling in the family (any more than reorging would).

I liked Mark's synopsis of the issues related to the subject topic. I hope he uses his local influence to assure the synopsis joins my "Lessons Learned" report after co-hosting the JCC. The report cited 33 of the more significant lessons and was submitted to the BOD in October. Improved internal communications was emphasized. A better job might have helped those who thought there was nothing for the family to do while dad played with his toy. The JCC website, for the first time, contained a narrated slide show that identified several key venues within walking distance if you didn't want to use the local shuttle.

As I see it now, anyone who didn't want to take advantage of the opportunity has no trouble justifying their decision. I'm no different.

You might watch for my response to some Qs raised in the last Jag Journal in the next edition. As a club I think we're "close" enough to respond to someone who has questions since others probably also wonder about some choices that were made.

Like Pat, stick a fork in me, I'm done.

Cliff
JAGIN Pres.
JCNA NC RD
JCC Co-chair (Ret.)

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

I was a member of JEC for many years, however I found that other than the great magazine , they were of little help as they were on the other side of the pond. I took my JEC money and invested in memberships of local race clubs in Canada. This was the best bang for my buck, and being a shoestring racer that is what I need.
JCNA is also great bang for your buck if you wish to enter North American events sanctioned by JCNA.
North America is a very large place, however with JCNA dividing up the continent there is still plenty of locations to attend in our individual regions and compete either regionally , and or if we wish North American wide awards can be vied for.It is always a problem when personalities collide, usually tenacity pays off in the end, and it is usually clear to the majority what is happening.
Good luck to anyone who figures they can create something better in this vast continent. To me JCNA is not perfect, however neither am I..close perhaps........ Art

I'm done.

P

Pascal. Firstly if you are going to quote figures to support a statement. At least take the time to make sure those that you use are somewhat accurate or they are bound to be critiqued by somebody.

Secondly. Now we get back to more mud slinging. Just to correct you. I don't have issues with JCNA, never have had. My issues centre solely around one particular member who sits on the Board of my local Jaguar club.

Sure like just about everybody else even youself. There are certain things I don't like and would like to see changed within JCNA but if the majority of the membership does not agree with me, then I can accept that. Does not mean however that I will stop from trying at every opportunity to get them to agree to change their minds. In the case of certain Concours rules I don't agree with. Until they are changed, I have the option of participating within those rules or not to participate at all, my choice. Does not mean however that I now have a festering issue with JCNA over it all.

All my posts on this subject have been far from being unduly negative. I have stated the basic facts as they are about the virtues and lack of them that go along with a present JCNA membership. I presented them honestly and without bias, they are what they are. Don't change any just because I have an on going disagreement with this person at my local club. I have also given accurate information about alternate clubs, the membership benefits they offer together with an over all picture of how they function. I even went further and offered suggestions how the benefits of membership within JCNA can easily be improved and how overall membership in JCNA can be made more attractive to new comers in order to increased membership.

You are now suggesting that this was all just negative commentary concerning JCNA.

"Mark, I disagree... note that the two most negative and biased posters on this thread both had "issues" with JCNA. This is no secret and not an attack. just fact."

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

I don't think there is any blame on the JCNA either as reflected in the earnest and supportive dialog. Everyone is invested in seeing the JCNA prosper which is a good situation to be in. I still think a survey, as Pascal suggests, is a solid starting point. Data is always good when diagnosing problems and developing solutions. You actually have a pretty involved task force just within this string of roughly a dozen respondents. What would it require to put a survey card in the JJ or to conduct an email survey through the local clubs?

Lynn
NGJC

Gee, I guess this one is pointed at me:

"Mark, I disagree... note that the two most negative and biased posters on this thread both had "issues" with JCNA. This is no secret and not an attack. just fact."

I don't have any "issues" with JCNA. Been there, done that. You guys keep doing what you are doing and I wish you all the best. I don't even own a Jaguar anymore.

I think guys like Gary, Pascal, Mark etc. etc. etc are great guys and have done a FANTASTIC job and should be commended for all their efforts. I'm sure there were a bunch of people at Enron who were great people and who were doing a great job too.

Keep doing what you are doing, best of luck to you.

Daniel
XK Club representative
Jaguar Enthusiasts Club
Jaguar Owners Association - Montreal

A daunting list of obstacles for any organization, to be sure.

Let's not fool ourselves...there have been enough well-organized CC's at fantastic venues for us to know what to expect...we have our own statistics from the school of hard knocks. We don't have membership numbers (and funds) that even begin to approach those of Corvette, Mustang, Viper, or even MG/Triumph, so I really don't think they know any more about planning an event than we do.

However, with Corvette, attending either the Bloomington Gold or NCRS event(s) is something that car owners and families actually work towards and look forward to. Why? Because the cars (that pass) receive a highly sought-after designation that denotes them as being the creme d'la creme. However, CC is merely yet another concours where a numbering system is used. Rather than making CC a 98 vs. 99 vs. 100-point competition, yielding 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places and sour feelings, why not start our own "JCNA GOLD" award, and let's not be STINGY in handing them out!

To be docked for a thumb print, or dust on the dashboard, or a bit of lint in the carpet is PREPOSTEROUS, and has NOTHING to do with the overall excellence of the cars. This, my friends, is where we have gone astray. NORMAL people...the ones we are trying to bring to the event...have NO idea or concept of WHY we deduct for dust or thumb prints. Do you see what I'm saying here guys?! The difference between a 100-point car and a 99.97 is MINISCULCE at best...step back 5 feet and they are both fantastic cars, worthy of praise, and worthy of "JCNA Gold" designation.

Here is your incentive folks...provide an award that can ONLY be gained by attending a Challenge Championship. And for goodness sake, don't award just ONE gold and ONE silver....be generous! Otherwise we're back to the same old numbering system. People don't want to travel hundreds of miles just to be knocked down by the concours judging system! Let's celebrate the Jaguar heritage! Let's have FUN!! If someone is on the bubble between gold and silver, then heck yes, give 'em a gold! Do you see the attitude we need to adopt? And let's get these cars out into the public like we did in Franklin! Block off the street! Hire a great band!

In the long run, an award (or designation) only promotes good feelings and camaraderie. Leave the gut-wrenching concours scoring and squabbling for the local shows. Leave the ÔÇ£my car is better than your carÔÇØ mentality at home.

We ALL know that there are high-dollar restoration companies out there that crank out 100-point cars for guys with a fat checkbook. How in the world can the average home hobbyist EVER hope to compete against those cars? Speaking only for myself, the restoration of my champ E-type took 20 years, not one or two like the professional shops do these days. So you see, it gives the average, everyday enthusiast the HOPE and chance of doing just as well as the really rich guys, and there is no real distinction between the two. And yes, if you want, have a dozen or two dozen ÔÇ£Judges ChoiceÔÇØ awards to hand out to the really outstanding and/or rare cars if you like. Etched glass or crystal trophies are really not very expensive.

To heck with this attitude of "more qualified judges mean lower scores"...that's going in the wrong direction, friends. In the end, after everyone has packed up and gone home, what REALLY matters? That the participants had a great time and their car received a ÔÇ£GOLDÔÇØ or "SILVER" status....or that they have NOTHING to show for their efforts?

Think about it.

Best Regards,
Patrick McLoad
JC Houston

I'm with Pascal - we could ask our Regional Directors to talk with their counterparts at the other national clubs that have been mentioned and look for themes or common characteristics that enable them to have the large and enthusiastic national meetings that we hear about. Gaining information about the competitive climate can only help. Or each club could be asked to generate a summary of what, from their perspective, could be done to enhance CC participation. Again, the Regional Directors could coordinate a comprehensive survey, consolidate the information and refer to the Board for review and a report back to the membership.

Lynn
NGJC

Bob,

I haven't heard anyone expressing any biases. The participants in this discussion seem to be open to all ideas regardless of the source. I know because I come up with some pretty radical ideas sometimes.

Patrick,

Great minds run on the same track. I was compiling my list when your post appeared.

I think we've hit on a number of reasons for low turnout.

1. Distances
2. Costs (although the actual cost of the event is a bargain)
3. Other committments
4. Lack of interest from other family members
5. Better judges, lower scores
6. No special significance attached to the CC
7. Ability to qualify for JCNA rankings at events closer to home
8. Lack of a sense of attachment to JCNA
9. Clubs scheduling sanctioned events too close to the CC
10. Jaguars are no longer "drivers' cars."
11. Membership is stagnant.

We also took a tangent discussion why JCNA membership is stagnant which is fodder for a fruitful discussion under another heading.

Here are your additions.

12. Underpromoted by current communication standards
13. General apathy by most JCNA members (lack of heritage appreciation)
14. Perception of JCNA over-bearing/bureaucracy in scoring methods
15. Burn-out

Solutions:

1 & 2: We have to hold CCs somewhere and it's a big continent, so we're going to be a "fur piece" from most of the members.

A. The only thing we can do is move it around. There are six regions. Perhaps each one should host the CC every two years.

B. Same as above but hold the CC annually and move it around so you have a close CC at least every six years.

C. I've always thought that each region should hold the equivalent of a regional concours (a la Western States) annually. Every six years that would become the CC.

3. There may not be anything we can do here.

A. The only way to beat a scheduling conflict is to make the CC more enticing than the conflicting event.

4. Options for families.

A. For the car-nut with a family of non-car people, hold the CC some place where the family would want to vacation and not schedule things so tightly that the family couldn't spend time together. Ex: amusement parks, beaches, mountains, anywhere where there are other fun and interesting things to do.

B. Arrange special deals for alternate non-car activities for every day, evening, and meal.

C. Keep the "package" but also price everything a la carte so families can choose the alternate activities.

D. Arrange for special room rates to extend beyond the CC so there is add'l vacation time.

5. Handicap scores.

A. Review scores from the last few CCs and determine what cars attended that and another JCNA concours in the same year. Average the scores for all the cars at the CCs and average the same cars' scores at other concours. If the average CC score is lower, that should be the minimum that we boost all scores at the CC. That would compensate for the tougher judging.

6. CC bonus.

A. To make the CC even more special, add a small bonus on top of the adjustment in 5A.

B. Tougher options, like making a CC judging mandatory for JCNA continental rankings won't pass.

7. No realistic solution

8. A solution is beyond the scope of this discussion.

9. Deny Sanctions

A. Deny sanctions to clubs that schedule competitive events within the window reserved for the CC.

10. The solution is out of our control.

11. A solution is beyond the scope of this discussion.

12. Underpromoted. I'm not sure I agree with this one. CC information is the in JJ for at least two issues (3-5 months) prior to the event. It's on the website for nearly as long. Club officers are e-mailed about it. It's mentioned repeatedly in the forums. Clubs mention it in their newsletters, or should. Short of spamming all the members, creating a JCNA-wide call-in tree, or sending a separate mailing to all the members (expensive), I'm not sure what else we can do. We ask the clubs to promote it, but if JNAS (JCNA Non-Attachment Syndrome) has set in, will they?

13. Similar to 10 and more related to membership than CC participation. Once you're a member of a local club, you just have to attend a few events to learn and appreciate the Jaguar heritage.

14. Scoring. This relates to concours participation in general and not specifically the CC. Any solution would address general concours participation.

15. Burn-out.

A. See 4. Make the CC a vacation and extend the concours into a relaxing vacation.

Those are my opinions and solutions, submitted for your consideration.

Of the problems we can specifically address here, in terms of the 2009 CC, we can't do anything about 1, 2, or 7 except to make the CC a must-attend event. Likewise 3, 4, 12, and 15 can be handled by the next CC committee with no BoD interference.

9 is a matter of enforcing the rules.

Only 6 and 14 require any sort of rule changes, and of those, I think 6 is the most important and easiest to accomplish. 14 would require a major re-examination of our scoring system.

Mark Stephenson, JCCA

Okay guys...time to close this thread with summations. I doubt we'll ever really solve the problem because we're not hearing from THE majority of those that we NEED to hear from....the 95% that NEVER attend a CC or even a local concours!!

So, Challenge Championship-Why no significant participation?
1) Distance and logistical costs
2) Appeals to only car-nuts; not a true family getaway
3) No difference/incentives between local & national concours score
4) Under promoted by current communication standards
5) General apathy by most JCNA members (lack of heritage appreciation)
6) Perception of JCNA over-bearing/bureaucracy in scoring methods
7) Burn-out

Anything else? Of the above, which can we quickly solve (if at all), and which will take a long time? Are we setting our expectations too high? Are we trying to cater to a group that could care less regardless of how fantastic a CC is?

Best Regards,
Patrick McLoad
JC Houston

South Florida, I'd say 12 to 15. But wait, if concours has no appeal, how come we get 40 to 50 cars at our concours ?

Pascal the records indicate you actually had 23 cars judged this year.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca
I guess an update would say distance and density,. In England I could drive from Yorkshire to London in two and a half hours on the Motorway.Over here with my rig it can take eight to ten hours of driving to get to my usual most Southerly event in Portland Oregon. This Oregon drive is nothing compared to the drive to a C.C. I get a lot of fun going to these events , however I am a competitor and a people person, ( I think ).
The membership in some areas is more dense than others so having the major events in the most dense areas would get the most response / attendance.
Whoever makes it to the C.C. events I am sure has a super time. The cost of entry is usually pretty good , however the cost of transporting a car there ( without a business or sponsor to help write off ) the cost is can be substantial.Possibly a rebate to persons hauling a car trailer or even just driving for between one and two thousand miles would aid in attendance, our club ( Pacific Jaguar Enthusiasts Group # 44 )actually has a program for persons driving from afar ( 600 miles minimun round trip )to our events they may apply for a complimentary Concour entry as long as they pay for the banquet and slalom event.
So come on down and Concour For Free in B.C.

Lets put all our individual biases aside for just one moment and muse just a little.

Can you just imagine belonging to a central Jaguar club that caters to your every need. Serving all the various preferences of Jaguar ownership such as vehicle collection, full or partial restoration, memorabilia, both competitive and non-competitive activities and both domestic and foreign travel. Where the financial benefits made available to you through the club will allow you to save more than twice what your yearly membership feeÔÇÖs cost on services such as personal and vehicle insurance. A club from which you can rent that special tool and purchase at large discounts, hard to find Jaguar parts, tires batteries, etc. A club that as a result of the jump in membership and the corresponding increase in club income, can now afford to have full time staff, designated central area chief Judges, judging teams, slaloms and rally organizers. How about belonging to a club that is 60 to 80,000 members strong.

The CD idea then comes into play whereas the history of Jaguar can be shown in addition to explaining all the various benefits and savings that comes along with purchasing a membership in JCNA maybe even a glimps into a previously held CC event so as to include the National events. Someone purchasing a new or used Jaguar takes home the CD pops it in the player and then because the benefits derived from becoming a member of JCNA are so clearly laid out for them they cannot resist picking up the phone and buying and membership.

Non of this is impossible if you will only open up your minds a little and believe it can be done.

Two years ago I dreamed of starting a mainly Jaguar club that would cater to the average do it yourself owner. I had planned on setting up this very large workshop that was made available to me, in which I would have fitted up to eight car hoists. These would have been rented out for use by the members on a time basis only. The place would also have had a tool storage section from which tools would be rented to members and a parts shop for the sale of parts, tire and batteries all at highly discounted prices. I planned to have a fully serviced body shop together with a modern spray shop. Up stairs would have been the clubhouse fitted with a lounge, a kitchen and a games room. I also intended to have a service technician on staff that could help with the most difficult jobs. I had all the financing in place and initially over 200 people who wanted to immediately become members at a fee of $750 each. The same amount it costs to join a golf club around here. Stumbling block came when the local council would not award me a variance to the local by-laws that presently does not allow for the operation of such a facility. Had it not been for that, a wild dream of mine would have become reality.

What I have suggested above concerning JCNA is also possible if only you would be more open minded and acceptable to change.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Thanks for that complementary posting Daniel, only where do I send the payment for it. Always wanted to get a perfect score and never quite made it.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Sorry Gary, Bob's latest posting gets the perfect 100.00!

I've said all this stuff before, and I'm kinda tired of repeating it.

Build a North American version of the JEC, with the same structure and the same benefits, and you will have great enthusiasm from North American Jaguar owners.

Or continue with the current JCNA structure and value package, and you get what you are getting now: apathy.

I don't realistically think that JCNA will ever change, so in my mind somebody needs to step up and start a new Jaguar club in North America. Maybe when I retire...

Daniel
XK Club representative
Jaguar Enthusiasts Club
Jaguar Owners Association - Montreal

Edited on 2008-01-15 12:41:36

Bob. I was not trying to take this thread off on a tangent, just attempting to defend myself against some unnecessary mud slinging that came my way. As in, if you canÔÇÖt fault the message, shoot the messenger.

In reference to Arts post. No way would I ever attempt to downplay the tremendous efforts and dedication that a number of people have put into JCNA. I just donÔÇÖt want to see all that dedication go to waste.

What I am suggesting is that with a little tweaking JCNA could easily become for most people, the Jaguar club to be a member of and not just a four letters on a membership card they received after joining another local Jaguar club. However it will never happen if we all keep out heads stuck firmly in the sand and donÔÇÖt do anything. Again I am talking about the 97 % of JCNA members that donÔÇÖt find events interesting enough to participate in. They are after all the backbone that allows JCNA to exist. If you donÔÇÖt start looking after them you eventually will not have a club to run.

So lets all stop being so defensive and start facing facts

JCNA is founded in a country when added to that of Canada, has a combined population of 336,381,456 and we have a reported membership of 6,000. JCNA also has the advantage of being situated in the heart of what was the largest market for Jaguar automobiles. We have previously been informed that the membership has remained stagnant in the area of 6,000 members during the past few years.

Using the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club of Great Britain as a typical comparison. This club was founded in 1984 in Britain. A country with a population of only 60,587,300. However JEC now boasts a membership of just over 21,000 and is growing steadily. They have established two clubs on the East Side of the United States and one in Canada. They also just welcomed another representative club in France. These additional clubs that they have manage to form outside of Britain, sort of dispels the excuses that I have heard used in the past, that British people love to join clubs more than North Americans do.

When you pay your 32-pound membership fee to join the Jaguar club you join ÔÇ£JECÔÇØ itself not for example ÔÇ£the Jaguar club of East SussexÔÇØ. You then pay an addition amount of 5 pound to join your local affiliated club. It is in fact this way that they have it set up in addition to the member benefits that are available that makes it so attractive to new members.

Again not meaning to offend anybody but I am sure I will? Their monthly magazine is second to none. 3 times winner of Classic CarÔÇÖs ÔÇ£Club Magazine of the YearÔÇØ When I received it, it would keep me occupied for the next three to four hours and even then I would go back to it many times and still find new and interesting things to read. Not only this but the Club maintains a list of over 500 Jaguar parts, servicing and evaluation specialists. In addition to having a full-time technical advisor, available Monday to Saturday from 10am to 7pm to answer members queries. JEC maintains a comprehensive UK tool rental service as well as having a selection of re-manufactured parts unavailable anywhere else. Members can also access a database of used parts.

A membership in JEC also entitles you to take full advantage of club discounts from insurance companies, travel companies suppliers and even a discount from the Institute of Advanced Motorists. JEC also maintains a web site comparable with that of JCNA however parts of theirs are restricted to members only. They do hold, I think three national concours events that are really well attended and booked up solid months in advance but most activities such as this are left to the local clubs to arrange for themselves such as done within JCNA.

If the salesman from both clubs were at you door asking for a signature and a cheque, who would you give your money too.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Personally I believe JCNA web access should be restricted to JCNA Members....................people who have paid their ten cents to give out their ten cents...........

That was stooping a little low Gary.

It is however true that I ran into difficulty with a prominent director of the OJOA club that both does not like me in the slightest and could not tell the truth if his life depended on it. On the other hand, even though they knew the whole story. I was invited to join the Ottawa Jaguar club the same year, which I did.

Also seeing as you bought the subject up. How come as a paid up member of JCNA, I did not receive any help whatsoever from JCNA to resolve this issue I had with OJOA. The JCNA board of directors had been made fully aware of the situation I was facing and I did request their help to resolve the issue. I was being actually ostracized by the club on absolutely false allegations made against me by a prominent member of their board of directors. I now find myself permanently prohibited from attending all JCNA sanctioned events that OJOA may hold or host, which includes their JCNA fully, sanctioned Concours. Again I state that I have never actually committed any sin against the club itself. Nor have I ever been notified by them of any misdeed that I am accused of. Just comes down to retribution by them for royally pissing this particular board member off.

Returning to the contents of your reply. The desire to participate in all the JCNA activities has only been indicated by a very small percentage of your membership. I was referring to the remaining 97% of the membership in my post that has shown no such desire. The insurance you mention only effects the clubs and does nothing for the everyday member. In addition a current JCNA membership is not required in order to use this web site. So whatever way you want to cut it, we are back to the items I listed.

No matter what disagreement I have had with other individuals presently or in the past that you want to bring up in an attempt to discredit me, it does not and will not change the facts in anyway at all. Mind you if you throw enough mud, some will stick.

Bob.

92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Gary's aforementioned benefits of JCNA are very accurate, the club's insurance alone would cost an individual club hundreds of dollars per year. With JCNA blanket coverage insurance I believe the cost is around $2.00 per member / year.
This is also an organization run by members / enthusiasts who love what they are doing on the whole, and great satisfaction is derived by simply doing what they love and perhaps do the best. So it is simply another example of "what you put in you get out".
Enthusiast....Art

Gimme a break!

I believe that Bob's "critical appraisal" of the JCNA, may be traceable to some difficulties experienced at his local club level.

Consider some benefits of JCNA membership:

Three North-American-wide competition programs, that make Jaguar ownership more interesting, providing a major incentive to own, restore, and USE your Jaguar!

Jaguar Journal - A pretty damn good club mag with resto info and describing activities of Jaguar enthusiasts and their clubs, NOT available from other publications.

An excellent web site having a full range of services, where one can glean information relating to Jaguar ownership, and have discussions such as this, even if uncomplimentary.

A cooperative comprehensive insurance plan, at a saving to the affiliates.

The opportunity for any member to attend two major JCNA events; the AGM and the Challenge Championship.

And, as I have expressed to Daniel before; "all this, for the price of a large pizza!"

The alternative?---Buy a Yugo, stay on the couch, and watch the Food Channel on T. V.!

I give Bob a 99.999 for that analysis!!

Daniel
XK Club representative
Jaguar Enthusiasts Club
Jaguar Owners Association - Montreal

I don't wish to comes across as being rude but lets face the cold facts.

If the JCNA organization was to completely fold up shop tomorrow, the only change that would make in the lives of 97% of Jaguar club members around North America would be the non delivery of their next bi-monthly JCNA Jaguar Journal and $26 more in the treasury of their local club for each and every member they have registered with the former JCNA. The remaining 3% representing the hard core event participants would have the loss of their centralized scoring system and year end awards to morn until it was all replaced with something else.

That there is the problem you are facing....In other words there is very little if any affiliation in the minds of the majority of Jaguar club members with the JCNA organization. Even the loss of the Jaguar Journal would be filled in very short order by one of the other Jaguar publications available on the newstands today.

Producing and giving away a CD on the history of Jaguars although it would be nice to have, will do absolutely nothing to raise the interest of members of local Jaguar clubs in an organization that the majority of members feel no direct affiliation with in the first place and only look at as a very exspensive voice of authority..

If you have doubts, the test would be to remove the stipulation altogether that everybody that joins a local club has to immediately be a registered member of JCNA and see after the first year how many members volunteer to rejoin JCNA.

Two years or so ago with the blessings of the JCNA, I was attempting to get the 40 or so Jaguar owners in my local British car club to come together to form a third JCNA affiliated Jaguar club in Ontario region. When discussing this proposition with the club members, I found myself at a total loss as to what to inform them as to the benefits they would derive from doing this other than to receive a bi-monthly Jaguar Journal the national scoring issue. They were not impressed at all and voted unanimously to stay
unattached.

Any major change in the ways things are at present would only come by JCNA becoming the "Jaguar Club of North America" with direct membership allowing members to feel fully affiliated with this one National Jaguar club with all the benefits a National Jaguar club could offer.

However I realize this is something none of you want to hear..

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

It was not my intention to knock JCNA or Jag Journal...we're all volunteers in this arena and doin' the best we can. If someone wants to start writng a script, I'll my part to get it shot and edited.

Patrick McLoad

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca
Regarding the JCNA members attending the CC events, these are the people who want to be there. The ones that do not show up are still supporting the event by paying their membership fee.
The idea of the dvd re Jaguar Heritage is a great idea with a new car purchase, they used to give out cd's with pop songs on them, a Heritage DVD would do way more for new owners who are possibly not aware of Jaguars History.
The quality of the new cars is tremendous as far as I see it, and so does the indipendent surveys that appear now and again, # 1 in the world is good enough for me. We still need that sports car for the younger boys also, and not a hugely expensive one. The X type was a good way to start to get less endowed buyers in there and get them started.
If you have not been to a CC yet you do not know what you are missing, as always however 2% of the people do 98% of the work, thats always the way...........

No Pascal, I'm not saying to give up. And I disagree that changing the structure of JCNA will have any affect on the 80% of Jaguar owners out there who never attend any functions, local or national. They just don't care about JCNA one way or the other.

There are two classes of owners: the hard core like all of us that contribute to this forum and keep the local clubs alive, and, the passive who are just too busy or apathetic about Jaguar events or heritage. As a result, our local shows and the national shows will only appeal to the hard core group. Fracture the hard core group by hundreds if not thousands of miles, and therein lies one of the problems.

So what about Jaguar heritage? Yes to many of us, it is very important, but I would suggest that there has been a certain amount of degradation of the public perception of Jaguar heritage due to Ford taking them over, and very soon, perhaps Tata. (I know that JDHT is on pins and needles these days waiting to find out if the next owners are going to support them in any way, shape, or form.) To many, their Jaguar is a Ford product. (Do you own a true Jaguar, a Ford Jaguar, or a Tata Jaguar?)

Perhaps the overall decrease in all local and national Jaguar events is due to Jaguar no longer being an independent British marque. Jaguar has been losing money for Ford ever since theyÔÇÖve bought it, and it has been widely reported that Jaguar is up for sale, and now, likely to an Indian group. If you think the link to Jaguar heritage is weak now, wait until Tata gets hold of it (in terms of public perception).

So can we expect MORE participation of Jaguar owners in the future or less? And what of the looming national recession that we are soon to experience? Do you think that a lot of folks are simply watching their spending? Could be.

If Jaguar heritage is the one thread that we all have in common, what exactly, is being done to promote that heritage? JDHT has NO operations in the USA even though we make up the largest percentage of Jaguar ownership. The only way you can become a member of JDHT is in spending an extraordinary amount of money (I think about $6,000) to become a member. And with all due respect to Jag Journal, there is very little about JDHT. One of the best promotional vehicles out there on Jaguar heritage is the DVD ÔÇ£Victory By Design: JaguarÔÇØ, but due to lawsuits, the VBD series is as rare as hens teeth.

So what does the new Jaguar owner get in terms of connecting him or her with Jaguar heritage, and thusly, JCNA? Well, not much. Perhaps a 3-fold JCNA brochure, if that. What really needs to occur is that each new buyer gets a free copy of Jag Journal, or even a free trial membership. Yes, a very expensive proposition, but if Jaguar dealerships kicked in say $15-$20 for each Jaguar they sold, then the costs would be taken care of. Better yet, a professionally produced DVD on Jaguar heritage could be included in the sales package.

Maybe JCNA needs to start using up-to-date technology to promote its message and events. A website is only going to do so much...it wonÔÇÖt get many visits if people donÔÇÖt know about it. As long as JCNA is perceived as bureaucratic, it wonÔÇÖt appeal to very many new-car owners...otherwise JCNA is destined to stand for ÔÇ£the classics onlyÔÇØ.

Sorry for the long post.

Patrick McLoad
JC Houston

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca
Distance is the greatest problem for me. Distance equals time, time equals money, and we all have whatever we have in that arena, some more some less. Even something as close they say as Western States ( Colorado )is quite a trip for West Coast English Canadians. Our son however has become involved with his love of Jags, so perhaps we can get there in the X Type. The CC are the greatest Jag events we have here in North America , even just flying to the event you can still walk away with an award or two ( if you have a loaner car available to slalom ). You also get to meet people in real life, you have only read about sometimes. My biggest thrill was Bob Tullius @ the Franklin Event, and then the following year to visit his hanger / museum in Sebring........
Western States in this years location will I am sure draw one of the bigger Western States attendances, second only to CC in National North American Events........

The two CC's I've attended were great events and I doff my cap to the members who have organized and put them on.

I guess I don't see the Challenge as ever being a "vacation" for my family. Alas, I'm the only one in my house who is even remotely interested. My kids haven't inherited the gearhead gene (or perhaps it's just recessive) and my loving wife handles my penchant for old cars with hushed tones and martyresque forbearance the way one might deal with a spouse's occasional drinking problem. I've always envied the guys who bring their families to car club events with everyone laughing and seeming to have a good time. With my family, a week-long event in the middle of summer is always going to have to compete with vacations on a sunny beach somewhere with room service and those drinks with the umbrellas. Therefore, attending the CC is something I do only for me and only if there are no other demands on my time.

Consequently, I'm inclined to pass on the more social aspects of the event like trips to local attractions and cocktail parties in fancy expensive hotels. Adding bells and whistles to the event to make it a vacation won't affect my attendance. I'm going to skip those anyway.

Like any endeavour to enhance something, perhaps we should play to our strengths. I go for the octane laced scent of the show field where I can peruse the rolling iron, talk with fellow enthusiasts about cars and feed my addiction. That's the essence of it for me. Of course, the whole time I'm there, I have a pang of guilt in the recesses of my mind for traveling hundreds of miles away from my family when the kids are out of school so I can play with my car. The trip, therefore, needs to be brief and not too expensive (because I'll still have to take them to the beach and get them the drinks with the umbrellas).

Kindest regards,
John Testrake
Jaguar Association of Greater St. Louis
74 XJ12L rhd, 85 XJ6

Poo-poo on that!

Lynn had it right: scrap the existing JCNA structure and re-start with one central club. All of the clubs you are comparing to have the centralized structure that JCNA does not.

One club = one set of problems to overcome
40 clubs = 40 sets of problems to overcome

Daniel Thompson
XK Club representative
Jaguar Enthusiasts Club
Jaguar Owners Association - Montreal

One thing I forgot to mention in my previous reply, was that many clubs ignore the JCNA rules which prohibit competition events being scheduled within 2 weeks of an AGM or a Challenge Championship. This disregard for the C.C. by the management of affiliate clubs, siphons both participation and the enthusiasm of their memberships, from involvement in JCNA's two major events.

Gary

A significant issue is the underlying structure of the JCNA. The JCNA is a federation of independant clubs which then, by design, has little central influence. Each club operates as an independant entity within the JCNA framework.

If local clubs operated as chapters of a central organization it would be easier to promote and emphasize national activites that had actual national impact.

Having said that, I am not familiar with the organization structure of the other national groups mentioned and may be off-base in my comments. Still, the JCNA is functioning as it was designed to function with strong local clubs and voluntary national participation.

One can only imagine the fireworks that would erupt with an AGM proposal to change the JCNA structure towards a centralized organization.

Lynn Cunningham
NGJC

Here are some of my theories:

1: Other club marques have only one main competitive event per year, we have 40-odd, spread around the country.

2: We can "stay-at-home-and-compete-nationally". They have to travel to events.

3: JCNA attaches no special significance to C.C. competition. This needs fixing!

4: Members don't realize the resources involved, ($50K to $100K and a lotta busted asses!) and that the C.C. is more of a vacation opportunity than a simple car show.

5: It's certainly not the locations nor the times of the year, since Dennis has run it in Phoenix, Cliff Burk in INDY in summer, Dennis again in 2005 in Georgia.
So locations, time of year, nor sponsoring clubs have significantly altered the attendance. INDY, in the heart of our membership point out how spoiled our membership is.

Good luck to the next C.C. committee. In 2008, Sue and I will be driving our MK-2 from NH to the Western States, in Colorado! Let's see how many join us there.

First, to Carroll Berg, it is unfortunate that your encounter with your local club was so negative. Those that called your E-Type a POS were either not members of the club, or if they were, donÔÇÖt deserve to be. We adore old drivers like yours down here in the South, so you are more than welcome here!!

Second, I suspect CC does the best they can with available expert judges from the region, but I wouldnt exactly call them the best. I attended Nashville CC and had a ball! However, the judge(s) missed the fact (or was just being kind) that I didnt have chrome piping strips on my E-Type bonnet, and some little old lady deducted me for having dust on my dash panelthis after rags down and while showing on a city street in the wind and with all kinds of foot traffic and 2 rain showers.go figure.

Third, I have always considered CC to be a regional event and one that I cannot always afford to attend. Yes, San Antonio is in my back yard, and IÔÇÖll be there. Wife and kids are quite another thing as I can barely get them to come to my local show much less one that is a thousand miles away. So I basically go to show my car (knowing IÔÇÖll get deducted for something miniscule) and to be around other like-minded Jaguar gear heads. But I cannot imagine why someone from Canada or the West Coast would want to attend the San Antonio event. I would dare say that most who do are retired, have money, and no kids.

Despite JCNA's best intentions and the host city's best planning, CC will never attract a large number of attendees due to the logistics involved.

Patrick McLoad
JC Houston

Unfortunately Art being blunt and straightforward with how you state things and especially when you use facts and figures to make your point, does not always sit well with some people. You tend to find yourself quickly becoming very unpopular.

Mark. I have already suggested a number of items that JCNA could add to there present set up that would encourage the general membership to become directly involved with JCNA. I also think your assessment of the present Concours situation is spot on. For the record I also very much like Steve Averill's suggestion.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

Bob makes some good points.

Until you've sort of attached yourself to JCNA, you local club members have no real connection to the mother ship, except through the Jaguar Journal.

I remember that before Dennis Eynon became a SW Regional Director, the JCCA (Phoenix) really didn't have any connection at all. We didn't send delegates to the AGM. JCNA was just a place we sent dues every year.

I am currently in Hilton Head having attended the HH Concours and donating, through our family restaurant, the lunches for the volunteers for both days. I had a chance to talk with them, and one conversation began with the fact that the HH Concours is always the same weekend every year -- the first in November.

One lady had been a volunteer at the Auburn Cord Duesenberg annual meet for many years before moving to HH. That was also held the same weekend every year and in the same place. Very predictable. They typically have 250-300 cars. I know there are a lot more Jaguars than ACDs. Much like Mike Cook's puzzlement at Jaguar attendance vs. Triumph, I marvel at how marques that haven't been produced in well over half a century can get a turnout double ours. ACD owners have an attachment to their continental club, because there aren't enough cars to support local chapters. Also, the ACD club has the benefit of having a "home," Auburn, IN, where ACDs were made and where the old factory has been turned into an ACD museum.

We don't have a home, but we could consider having the CC the same week every year (or every other). That way people could leave the dates open.

But there is one aspect of local/CC competition that I'm not sure how we handle. We reward people with the highest scores in multiple events with JCNA and regional rankings. That means that people who are trying to gain rankings are most likely to attend those events where they would receive the best scores. Not only do I think this penalizes clubs with more stringent judges, but it can't help CC attendance. Because the CC is usually the best attended show on the continent, you can expect the most knowledgeable judges. Condition and cleanliness judging may be on a par, but the experts at the CC are the most likely to catch authenticity deductions. You'll get the best judging at the CC, but chances are, you won't receive your best score there. Is it worth driving/trailering your car hundreds of miles to a venue that will likely give you a score that will pull down your average?

The same thing applies to rallies, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't JCNA rally champions decided by their best rankings at individual events? If so, chances are you'll have your toughest competition at the CC.

If you can meet the continental ranking requirements by attending less challenging events, there isn't any reason to travel long distances to attend a CC. OK, there is, if you go in knowing that you are going to be judged by probably the most accurate judges and you want the challenge and don't mind having this be be a throw away score.

The problem is, I don't have a solution. There's a direction we have to go, which is to somehow elevate the CC rankings above that of a local concours, but all the ideas that pop into my head are unlikely to survive an AGM. A few years ago, Steve Averill suggested an alternate ranking system whereby concours cars were assigned a value based on their ranking (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) at a show factored by the number of cars in the class. So 1st at a show when you're the only car would not count as much as first at a show where there were ten cars in your class. Among it's may benefits, this would automatically make a win at the CC, where the competition is tougher, more valuable than a win at a local concours. A good concept, it proved too radical a change for most of the delegates to accept. Another option that has been discussed in the past, has been to make the CC a required stop to win a continental championship. A large majority didn't like that idea, because it meant that only those with the money to attend the CC could win. But, the owners of 250-300 ACDs make the trek to Auburn each year to attend a very special concours, because it's the only big event they hold and the only way you can justifiably claim that you have the best A, C, or D in the country.

Our problem is that in terms of competition, the CC is not only not special, but could be considered a problem, and as Bob pointed out, there's no connection to JCNA for most members at the local club level. I'm just not sure how we elevate the CC.

Mark Stephenson

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

Bob, I like to see your positive use of numbers , a positive down to earth reasoning and attitude is something I also try to conclude with. Art

I did not dwell on the other activities in my previous post because those figures were even less impressive. It would appear that only 33 slalom entrants have attended more than one event and a total of 35 cars have been entered in rally's with only five of them having entered more than just one event. As can be anticipated, the local clubs activities seem to rule in comparison to multiple interclub activities.

To strengthen activities such as this Challenge Championship, JCNA has to start on the road towards creating an atmosphere of unification or belonging. In short an enthusiasts club.

As of right now I believe I am right in stating that the majority of JCNA members are members of JCNA by default only. They have consciously made the decision to join a Jaguar club that is local to them so that they could spend time with fellow Jaguar enthusiasts. Shortly after joining these clubs they receive another membership card in the mail which now informs them that they now also belong to JCNA. This membership entitles them to receive a Jaguar Journal every two months and that is where the association with JCNA presently ends for most of them. Unless of course they decide to venture into Concours, slalom or rally events, which the majority doesnÔÇÖt.

JCNA does absolutely nothing for itÔÇÖs general membership other than send them a copy of the Jaguar Journal every two months. Only the Concours, slalom and rally guys get extra by way of year-end trophies from JCNA should they qualify for one.

That's it. How does that in any way promote a club atmosphere that would make anyone feel it is worth driving any distance to attend a JCNA event unless it was being sponsored by their own club.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

I'll be watching this thread and contributing periodically as - Yes, we were expecting more to attend the CC. The Circle could accomodate about 200 cars (~40 more on the spokes) but we capped attendance at 180 cars so we could focus on quality (of the events), not quantity. Actually, 87 cars were in the judged classes (Ed Haynes was listed 2X). Another 28 cars were in the Display category on the NW quad of the Circle.
We didn't expect folks from west of Denver (an 18-hour drive) to make the trip with their car, but we did expect more from within 500-600 miles to do so). We were mightily impressed that we had a true North American event with numerous reps from Mexico and Canada. More had registered than attended (the No Show rate was about 12%) and several tried to walk-in on the day of an event. (At the risk of changing the focus of this thread, I wish we could have accomodated them.)

Let's not dwell on the concours. Let's also include the other events/aspects that define JCNA: the slalom, the rally, the venue, the food and the people.

Attendance this year, I understand, was comparable to what we experienced in Phoenix in 03 and GA in 05. I thought hosting this year when the kids weren't in school might bring some more teens than we saw. I enjoyed seeing the father-son and grandfather-grandson teams that attended!

Any thoughts regarding the price (which has been about the same for the last 3 CCs)?

San Antonio in 09 is at the outer limits of my range but I'll be looking forward to seeing friends I've made over the years again then.

My question would be more like why would you expect more members to support JCNA National events.

JCNA acts more as an administrator of clubs rather than as a club itself. Loyalty of the membership is encouraged by JCNA to be funneled through the local clubs. So it is only natural to expect that is where the majority of the support goes. The only functions that JCNA comes into play is in regards to the tabulating of scores and the awarding of year ends awards to vehicles that have been campaigned each year at events being held by the local clubs. The only benefit that goes to the general membership of JCNA, to my knowledge is by way of each member receiving a copy of the BI-monthly Jaguar Journal.

The Challenge Championship. Just looking at the Concours event.According the JCNA web site you have 220 members that have attended 2 or more Concours events. Of these only 188 have attended 3 or more events. Again looking at clubs represented using the membership numbers given, you could only reasonable expect that of this 220, only 110 of these people were located in places that would allow then to make the journey to attend the Indiana location. As far as the Challenge championship this year is concerned. You had 88 total entries in the Concours of which 9 were local participants. The other 79 were all people already included in the above statistics that have attended 2 or more other Concours events. So it could be concluded that out of those that you could reasonably have anticipated would have attended, you had 71% of them attend. Considering that not everybody that shows Jaguars can afford to take time off from work whenever they like, I would say that the 71 % result represents a very good turnout.

In future if JCNA wants to start to present itself as a full club and not just as an administrator of all other Jaguar clubs it has to start into representing its members in a more meaningful way. Start to promote itself as a club for everyone, not just for those that choose to campaign their cars. Investigate such things as having a major North American Insurance company offer car, liability and life Insurance to all JCNA members and their families at a discounted rate. Travel company to offer discount travel. Hotel chain to offer discounted accommodation. Create such things as a special tool loaning system and parts acquisitions. Establish technical help lines for items over and above what the forums offer. Trips to special events and car shows such as the AAPEX/SEMA show. Make the Jaguar Journal a more informative by adding special news announcements, covering Jaguar recall and service bulletin announcements and other items of special interest. Include special projects completed by members. Might also help to tie all the clubs together if you would include a club report section. Where all clubs would make a small contribution to each issue to let others know what is going on in their particular area.

I could go on but I think you all get the picture.

Bob.
92 Ser III V-12 VDP #31 Canadian Edition
87 Ser III V-12 VDP
86 Ser III AJ6/Soveriegn

I thought your ideas were great every tow years is along time and going so far from where you might be located can be extremely tough, especially if someone thinks your going to bring you vehicle with you. I think the JCNA and local clubs like JANE assume that everyone is financial able to do what a few can do. I think the JCNA and local clubs do nothing to make those who don't own a champion of the breed unwelcome. Some of us have gone to extreme lenghts to obtain our Jaguars, I own a 1962 XKE roadster it is not show quality, it is not much at all except it runs darn good and it drives darn good. I'm taking it all a part this winter to do some much needed body work. The cost is a strain but it is what I have to do to help keep my pride and joy on the road. Try accepting all members with open arms. This started two years ago when I parked my car at a local event not entering anything and two members mention what a piece of #%# my car was hey didn't realize it was mine, and I confronted them, that it was simply a driver nothing more nothing less, they said oh nice car and kept walking. That was the end of my involvement. I still belong be to JCNA and a local club only beciase it gives me an opportunity to get the magazine and local flyer. I love the info but not the people

A group attended from Canada - what is the definition of sigificant? Was there less people than expected?

Regards,

Dan Lokun
Toronto Canada
90 XJ-S, etc.

Art Dickenson.
1983 XJS GT "Silver"
Pacific Jaguar.ca

One idea our small group has started is a "FREE" Concours entry to any entrant who travels a distance greater than 300 miles (one way) from their home. All the entrant has to do to is pay admission to the rest of the event, (SLALOM,BANQUET) and they receive free ride into the Concours, .
This may seem a small amount , it is however a thank you to the people making the trip, it also gets them a tank of gas at the end of the event and take them quite away's towards home, or better yet all the way home. Come on out to Pitt Meadows and see us the 1st full weekend in June, you will be very glad you did...........