XK150 FHC Judging

Pete give me a call at 803-760-9460 or SCJAGJUNO.COM.

Finally had a chance to read up on the AC materials in the Judging....thx for that....will help on the restoration and not bad to ahave my car in the book. George, any pointers on an Arctic Kar AC expert or should any good auto AC man be able to handle?

Also, any rec's on a good shop for Transmision rebuild? Interested in one in the SE to keep trans costs down but most interested in a shop that does top notch work. Thx

No problem (I use them too) but you should see that logo on the controls (under the facia(dash) and on both of the outlets (view thru rear screen). I hope you keep this car as it is when you "restore" it!

Thx, George...will look at the guide...and the brand of the AC is Arctic Kar...didn't have my "cheaters" properly adjusted when I stuffed my head in the trunk for a look the first time!

Sorry but the word "doubt" should go between without and original.

Pete there is no doubt that it was sealer installed or possibly the distributor--but it is very rare and without original for JCNA purposes. Have you looked at my updated guide? I think you will find pictures of your car--but before you owned it so sorry no credit! JK The radio needs to be replaced.

Thx to all of you folks for the feedback. As we get into it I will be back with specifics of what we find. I can tell you that the dealer installation of the Artic Cat brand AC required modifications of the engine compartment that intruded into the driver side wheel well. The AC compressor was attached where the generator was originally located and the generator was bolted outboard of the compressor, extending into the driver side wheel well. There are two AC radiators up front...one infront of the engine radiator and another under the front bumper. The main blower is in the boot with nozzles that emerge through the interior rear shelf. So do I hear you folks saying that this AC system, though dealer installed, was sanctioned by Jaguar? If so, I keep and restore, as this would be considered rare for a 150 FHC.

And it sounds like the Blaupunkt radio was not sanctioned and would be a detractor if the car were judged?

Pete the Webasto in your car is correct----the car could be ordered with the top but it was ex factory--it would have been installed elsewhere but prior to delivery. The radio however is not correct. Jaguar (the company) and Jaguar NA (at that time Hornburg and Hoffman) offered a radio. Appendix E to the Judges guide will be presented next AGM and will provide pictures of the "approved NA radio". Geo.

Pat as it always goes that car "popped" up after the guide had been put to press. After 2 years of researching the documents this came in late--along with a couple of other documents. They are included in the guide as updates and I am told that will post soon. If this is the same car the new owner should contact Nelson for a hard copy of the guide with his car featured (shamless plug for JCNA to make $$$$$) -more like $. George.

Thanks George. I've read your guide in detail and must commend you for an superb job. I don't mean to belabor this thread and certainly not question your belief that this particular XK150 had a "factory approved, albeit not factory installed" AC system. If there is some mention of XK150s being so fitted in your guide I could not find the reference. It is actually a mute point for me as I doubt if we ever see one at any of our Concours. Pete, my suggestion is certainly do not remove the system from you car unless it is in such terrible condtion that it would detract from its appearance. In fact, if it was factory approved, you have something very rare and valuable.

Pat the documentation is changed--the AC history and guide was approved at the AGM--there are also some new additions to the guide that document the 3rd from the last XK150 FHC (is this the same car?) There is no doubt from my research that this car (in the guide) was provided from Hornburg with the AC and is authentic under current JCNA guidelines. The difference in your wheel story is that the wire wheels were never approved by Jaguar NA and in fact were the subject of numerous bulletins that they were not authorized. The AC clearly was and the point of the guide in this case was to determine original AC vs modern add on. Geo. Ps see guide at the end of the concours section

Hence the reason for my question, Gents...I have plenty of time to get the right answer and steer the proper course...but who will make the definitive call on the rules? Thx....and appreciate the byplay

OK. I understand what you are saying but, until the documentation is changed, I have to follow the Rule Book. None of the documents listed in Appendix C mention anything about air conditioning units on XK150s. I just double checked my factory service manual and spare parts catalogue and can find nothing listed there. Now, if George publishes a Judges Guide, and it's approved at the AGM then I can certainly follow that. But, until then, if I were to judge the car, I would deduct non-authentic points and Pete would have to produce an official Jaguar document to prove otherwise.

I'll be very interested to see how this pans out as this would be a case of a dealer-offered accessory not produced/sold directly by the Jaguar factory. A good case in point being the bolt-on wire wheels that you upheld the deduction for.

Pat

Hi Pete and Pat,
I had the opportunity to "visit" and take pictures of your "new" car a few weeks ago. I'm very happy to see that it was purchased by a forum correspondent.

I suspect that friend, George Camp, may also respond but I had to quickly advise you to NOT assume that the air conditioning was not authentic. One of the reasons I went to see the car was to document its air conditioning installation. George has recently authored the "JCNA Jaguar Air Conditioning Judge's Guide". In his "History of Jaguar Air Conditioning"section, George draws from John Dougdale that Jaguar issued a July 2, 1956 bulletin which, in part, stated: "All Jaguar dealers may not be aware that air conditioning units are available in the USA for fitting to Jaguar Mark VII sedans.... the unit is Artic-Kar, developed in Texas........." . The LA Jaguar office and Hornburg Jaguar were closely associated with the development and distribution of these early installations.

The unit in your XK150 FHC carries the Artic-Kar label. From what George Camp has researched and, from what I observed, I personally believe that the air conditioning unit in your car was most likely adapted and installed (at the time of delivery) by Hornburg from what they had developed for the Mark VII. The bottom line is that you have a potentially strong case that, though very unusual, the A/C installation in your late model XK150 is authentic.

Good luck. You have a unique car.
Dick Cavicke

Hi Pete. The rules are pretty clear on authenticity issues. The items MUST have been offered by the Jaguar factory and must be listed in official Jaguar literature. The radio and AC are not authentic. A couple of years ago a gentlemen entered his XJ6 in our Concours with bolt-on wire wheels. He even produced the original dealer invoice (from when he purchased the car new) which stated the Dayton bolt-on wires were mounted on the car by the dealer. The owner protested the penalty but it was upheld by the Rules Committee. Now, please note that if you enter the car in Driven Division, the radio would be allowed providing it was installed in the original location. The AC is non-authentic regardless.

Pat H.

Thx, Pat....and sorry for late response. Very helpful. The car I am restoring looks to be the last Coupe mfged that is still in existence. I am told there may be ansarticle in about it in the next issue of XK Gazette but not sure....prior owner started the process. Two interesting dealer add-ons when this car was purchased in 1961....Blaupunkt radio and an Artic Cat air conditioning system. Since they are not original equipment I th nk they need to go...but as they were dealer added when new, I'm not sure. What's your view?

Pete there is a 150 guide in process from the JCRC but will not be ready for a while--you might try ordering the first 150 work from the store here prepared by JCNA members Charlie Morgan and Karen Miller (miss both of you still) and was offered at the 35th AGM in March 1993 at Seattle. As far as Porter's book goes make sure you cross check any expensive decisions you make using it as a refrence.

Hi Pete. I have a '59 XK-150 that i mostly restored myself. One very good source for you is Phillip Porter's book "The Original XK." Give Mike Mowery (Music City Chief Judge) a call and ask him which of his judges is most knowledgable about the 150s. I'm sure they will be more than happy to take a look at your car. They can also explain the JCNA judging process. You can also download the JCNA Concours Rule Book which explains how the cars are scored and also has a chapter devoted to Instructions for Entrants. In JCNA we judge the cars for authenticity, condition and cleanliness. Condition and cleanliness should be pretty obvious and the scoresheets used by the judges give minimum and maximum deduction points for each area. These sheets can be downloaded from the Concours section on the JCNA website. Authenticity deductions are made for anything on the car that was not officially offered by Jaguar for the particular model and year. There is a special chapter in the rule book which lists the mandatory point deductions to be taken for any non-authentic item found. If you'd like to see some pictures of my car, I have some posted at www.patsjags.com. Good luck on your restoration!

Pat Harmon
CJ NGJC