1964 MKII 2.4L RHD

'cause I like BRG?
And it needs paint.......solve two issues with one paint gun!

TOC

I think you did good!

And the "copper" color is nice! why paint it BRG? The car looks better in that color.

Congratulations man.

JAM

Photo 3

Photo 2

Three quick photos.
Got it 6 hours ago.
Brake hoses shot, but if you keep fluid in it, brakes are good.
Drove it 16 miles to show the lovely bride.
Parts will be here Tuesday.

Edited on 2008-05-13 10:23:11

TOC, yes, the felt or "fiber" or "horsehair" bushes are superceeded by the Nylon bushes for obvious reasons, mine had the fiber ones too when I removed the column.

I am not sure if you can still get the fiber/horsehair ones, perhaps in the UK.

One thing I learned: The Nylon bushes tend to "squeak" when new and until they "settle".
I should have lubed them better, and I did lube them, but they are a tight fit, so any lube will soon be dispersed, and the squeak comes back, though it has been slowly dissapearing.

Contacting individual subscribers here: used to be that you clicked on the member's name shown on the green areas of each post and that took you to another screen where you could copy their e-mail or send them a private message. I suppose they have changed it due to spammers infiltrating the site selling Nokia phones. you might contact Pascal Gademer, the Administrator here, to find out how it's done now, if it can be done. To contact Pascal, go to top of page and click on CONTACTS, search down the page for his name and e-mail. If still no luck, let me know.

By the way: George Camp (his name shown above), is very knowledgeable about your car and mine, though I don't want to put him in the spot or anything, but just to let you know, he can be relied for good information.

J.A.M-
I have no idea how to contact folks on this forum.
I checked on parts, and it seems these have felt washer/bushings, not the nylon ones.
Is the nylon bushing an upgrade, and will it work?

Thanks!

Yes, N-S, E-W.
I know my flatheads used a leather bushing, we replaced them with ball bearings and a spring-loaded cone like on later cars.

This car cames with all sorts of manuals.

I will have to come up-to-speed on parts sources.

I didn't look.....do MKII's have "Maltese Crosses" in the steering shaft?

I know MKI's did, and when they rot in the heat of Palm Springs, and the shaft separates at 65 MPH it can get very interesting, very rapidly.

Thanks!

Edited on 2008-05-09 8:16:27

TOC, you are not required to use your name, or any name, you use the name that you want to use. Do not feel pressured to use your name in public. Some people do, some people don't. As if you and I were the only ones.... You can always reveal your real name by PM. If you have any questions about your registration or posting here, you can always ask Pascal Gademer, the administrator here.

When you say "the bearing" behind the steering wheel, do you mean there's "play" in the inner steering wheel column? As in north-south-east-west? It's probably the bushings in there. In my '65 S type, there are 2, one on each end of the inner column. They are vinyl bushings.

These bushings cost like $6.00 and a lot of Labor to replace. I replaced them myself.
My advice is that you order the Factory Shop/Service Manual CD so you follow the dismantling and reassembly procedure to a "T" instead of guessing your way.

Basically-speaking, you can remove the entire INNER steering column complete with steering wheel in one piece, (see picture below), replace the two bushings (well lubed otherwise they squeak when new, ask me how I know this), and reassemble. You need to make markings with white paint wherever needed so everything goes back exactly where it was.

J.A.M.

Well, answer some questions.
First, tonight I made the call, and as soon as the owner gets back (middle of next week), we do the swap of ownership.
Seems sound, no holes, drives nice.
He had put in a whole bunch of suspension bits several years ago (less than 1K miles), something he says now costs $1800 in parts.
Adjustable ride.

Gotta make sure I find out how that works.
Has spare wood, new windscreen and backglass rubber, spare gauges.

Paint is somewhat of an issue (photos will come), but recent interior, new tyres, and exhaust.
The bearing behind the steering wheel is gone, wheel lifts up and down, telescope works fine.

Master cylinder leaks.

Names:

When I join the local Jag club, I will post such.

I have been fairly high-profile in my business, and would just as soon keep search engines from finding me by name and associating me with something new.
At least at this point.

Easier entry-level.

TOC is The Old Curmudgeon

Yowza Curmudgeon,
The RHD makes a good anti-theft deterrent also. Seeing around to pass without a passenger is a whole 'nother deal but I found a way to safelt deal with that issue.
Good Health to You, Bob Lovell

Yowza Curmudgeon,
If the car is structurally sound, go for it. I imported a 1965 MKII 2.4 with wire wheels and overdrive. The car was originally and still red. Originally thought I'd change out the motor to something bigger, never did. I did end up getting a straight port head and put togeather an intake with (3) 1 1/4 inch SU's. I'd seen someone else do the same thing and the car modified as such had no qualms about going over 100. Other things taking my time currently, plus the valves and seals are in good shape.
The original Solexes were utilized by Jaguar for only one reason, and it wasn't their cheapness/expense. That set-up allowed the engine to be installed in the car from the bottom with the carbs in place. The SU's would've had taken additional time/labor to install AFTER the engine was in place.
Mine came from the UK and had a Webasto installed. The grooved fanbelt is the only annoyance as I purchased a positive ground radio while I was over there.
The 2.4 is a sweet purring design because of it's bore and stroke combination.
Buy it and drive it as a RHD. When I picked the car up in New Jersey I had to larn to shift left-handed with the Moss box. I've never "launched" the car without making sure I'm in first and not reverse.
Toll booths were still in Connecticut back in '82. The Webasto roof made it easy to practice my overhand throw to get quarters in the basket. I started out with a roll, but the learning curve got better real fast. BUY IT.
Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell

and the rear...

and the front view... notice the accurate MK-II bumpers!

Edited on 2008-05-04 18:15:20

here's so you can all have a laugh. This is my estate sale find last Friday, a "Jaguar 3.4" friction toy car. Some research online tells me it was made by "Bandai" in Japan in the 1960's. It does say underneath: "B" Sign Of Quality - Made in Japan. A 2-day treatment with WD40 has revived the friction mechanism to the point where it skids the rear tires when placed on the floor.

Guys it goes alot further back than buggys! JAM and OC can you please explain why you will not sign in with your names!

It is unlikely we will ever find out who decided left or right hand drive. I heard a slightly different version of the stagecoach story, it was that they drove on the left so that their right hand could be free to shake those of oncoming coachmen BUT, it seems like most coachmen sat in the middle and with two hands on the reins. The example of medieval jousters holding their Lances in the right hand seemed reasonable. As to why HF went LHD. For the same reason light switches go up to turn on, that rounders became baseball, that Rugby became football, that we hold our fork in our right hand , that we call the E type the XKE etc,etc.

hello twin! Great to meet another J.A.M. !

thanks for that explanation, I see now where it started. Interesting. Must have started in the 1700's in Europe? I love those carriages. The only unanswered question is why Ford decided on LHD when everyone else was RHD.

Back to Jaguar: my brother-in-law arrived all excited about an Estate Sale that's going on nearby, in a very old house. He told me there was a friction Jaguar toy, the Made In Japan kind from the 1960's, similar to "mine". (I have a 1965 S type).

So we flew over there and he had hidden it under a table so noone would buy it!

Turns out it's a "Jaguar 3.4" (MK-1) in the most horrible "Duck Egg's Blue", (not green), an original Jaguar color I have seen once in a 1955 XK-140. A toy indeed, looks like it has been played with extensively, left in the rain for months, then brought inside after mother found it, then dropped from the third floor window, you name it, a well-abused toy. Missing a headlight too. Definitely early 1960's.

But after carefully looking at it, it has the most realistic proportions I've ever seen in a 1:24 or 1:25 scale model Jaguar. Of course I bought it, brought it home, and started "restoring it".

WD40 took care of the friction mechanism. I have fixed the dents almost perfectly by pressing the tin between my fingers, the interior is accurately silk-screened, the Picnic Tables are there, and guess what? It is LHD with an accurate Steering wheel and Dash Gauges! Very well executed "wood". The bumpers are pure MK-II. Curiously, it has the vertical "parking lamps" of the MK-1 AND the round parking lamps of the MK-II. An amalgamation of both models. Horn grilles and Grille very well done. The windscreens are blue Mica. The rear reverse Lamp housing and a "Jaguar" license plate still there.

So I spent the entire afternoon fixing it and tomorrow I'll have it ready. Stay tuned for pictures tomorrow! The paint is all scratched, the chrome is rusted, but what a sweet toy!

J.A.M.
The story I have heard is that horse-drawn coaches passed LH to LH so whips held in right hand by right-handed drivers would not tangle. This practice led to cars on the RH side as a natural follow up.

I did 60 seconds of research on where the driver belongs and why, and found early photos of drivers on both sides. But in Hough's "Motor Car Lovers Companion" he writes that Ford's model T, introduced in 1908, "had left-hand drive, whereas most American manufactuers were still putting the driver on the right". Obviously, from them on there was no fighting the volume impact of the model T.

Jim A. Morton (You got to the initials first)

Mike, that sounds like a handful! It almost sounds like one has not enough hands or feet left for steering and braking... (yes I know, I'm only exagerating the point).

Anyone here likes the Auburn,Cord, and Duesenberg? (other than Jay Leno). Those things are as big as locomotives.

No, the gear selector on the Model T was operated by foot pedals. The spark advance was operated by the left hand while the right hand operated the throttle.

Mike Eck
1923 Ford T Touring

the trouble is that I like the way old cars were designed with curves, the McLaren and such "exotics" are too "wedge shape" for my taste. (not to mention the prices!).
But a 1932 Alfa must be nicely sculpted, never seen one of those.

I think the only way to do a Center Drive is to have a rear engine, surely that's why they are either LHD or RHD if the engine is in front and "in-line". I do not care for modern transverse engines either, or FWD. I only drive rear wheel drive cars, therefore my Jags and my 1992 Ford Aerostar, which is falling apart compared to the 1965 S type and the 1984 XJ-6 which are still "tight". Amazing differences in manufacture.

I take it the Model T had the gear selector on the left? I think I'd be happy with a 1933-34 Ford Panel or Sedan, completely stock except for a modern drivetrain and interior. The 3 window coupes are popular but not practical.

Edited on 2008-05-02 0:37:12

Edited on 2008-05-02 0:32:36

As for driving a RHD car, I tell potential purchasers that every postal delivery person drives one! CD (centre drive), is much more popular than you might imagine, most heavy armoured military vehicles, tanks etc, are CD. Moreover I remember at the 1966 (I believe) Earls Court Motor Show admiring a Ferrari 375 LM which was CD. It was not produced for very long, apparently due to two serious accidents involving this very fast five speed car! Another interesting car introduced at that show was the Monteverdi! Regarding the reasons for LHD mentioned by JAM, gear lever position likely was not one of them as any driver of a Model T will testify!

I'm with you on steering in the center Jam. Great idea and would settle the argument once and for all! You'll just need to get hold of a '32 Alfa Romeo P3 Monoposto. It was good enough for Nuvolari but no room for passengers and probably not as reliable as your S-Type. If your tastes are a bit more modern, the McLaren F1 has a center seat.

hi John,

colleagues disagree. Obviously you disagree in a courteous manner and that is appreciated by the recipient, and the observer.

I had no idea that Hemmings had an opinion on RHD. I havent read Hemmings in years.

But do not assume I am "anti-RHD", it's just that for the reasons stated by George Camp above, and for other reasons like you stated, and my own, I do not favor RHD cars. But that doesn't mean I am against them.

Actually I see a contradiction:

In a world where most people are Right Handed, most cars are Left Handed Steering. Could the Stickshift be the determining factor?

Another contradiction:

Every time I see a cowboy movie where the Stagecoach is escaping from the bandits, the Driver is usually on the Right side of the bench! And so is the Brake! This is also true for the Pioneer Wagons. -very confusing-

So why then, did Americans cars end with the steering on the left?

To avoid any future differences of opinion, I propose that from now on, all cars are made with the steering in the Center! (just kiddin')

TOC,
the '67 Cougar is one of my favorite cars. Also the 1933-1934 Fords and Studebakers.
How I ended with 2 Jaguars for the last 17 years is not a mistery, the one reason: Reliability. As in, "hardly any problems". As in: "Always there when I need it". "I can rely on the Jag when my other car breaks down". And on top of that, a certain "finesse" that these cars exude. I can't put my finger on it, but it's there everytime I get in one of them. Years go by and I don't get tired of them, the opposite is true. They are like "jewels" or "gems".

So I watch people lease their Infinitis and Toyotas and BMW, then dispose of them in 18 months for want of a "newer" car... (yawn).

Beautiful shot of your 74 XJ12L interior, John. You've obviously done another meticulous restoration. You reminded me of how I will sometimes lift the lever on the left side of the steering column to signal a right turn only to turn the windshield wipers on instead. It's times like that when I realize how strong learned behavior can be. I won't mention the times I've turned the windshield wipers on only to see a blinking green light on the dash. Oh, well. I'ts all part of the mystery and charm of the Jaguar.

I remember seeing your car in Franklin, Dave and I fell in love with it. UK spec V12, RHD in Old English White. Now THAT'S a proper XJ.

Like you, it takes me a few minutes to get used to the rhd. I have the added challenge of having another XJ which is LHD which only confuses me further. In many ways, they're identical cars. I can never remember which one I'm in and which side of the column the turn signal switch is on. Sometimes I go to the wrong door to get in. Then I have to act like I meant to do that and was just checking something before walking around and getting in on the driver's side. At shows, onlookers don't realize at first that it's RHD. Then they peer inside and get a big grin. When they tell me the steering wheel is on the wrong side, I just say I've been meaning to get that fixed.

If I had to drive the car every day in traffic, it might be different but for a hobby car, I think RHD makes a British car much more interesting.

Still negotiating with the spouse.
Car isn't going anywhere soon.

Keep you posted.

Cheap is, well, cheap.

More than I've paid for a personal car, ever.
My wife's Explorer was a bit more, but that's hers.

My 50 Ford Tudor was $125 thirty-eight years ago.
My 49 Willys wagon was $20 thirty-three years ago.
My 50 Ford F-1 was $350 eighteen or nineteen years ago.
Still have all of those.

Next up was a 1967 Cougar, bought in 1970, from a dealer for $1425.
Traded that off when kid #2 showed up.

This vehicle is more than those.

John,
I agree that RHD is a plus, if for no other reason than the interest and, yes, astonishment that it generates among onlookers. When I'm at a show, folks who want a look inside will invariable come round to the left-side door, peer in, and exclaim: "Why, your steering wheel is on the wrong side." When I'm on the road, it takes about 15 minutes for me to convert mentally and physically from LHD to RHD. And then, it's nothing but pure pleasure getting from point A to point B. Sorry I didn't get to Indianopolis to see your XJ12L last year. Perhaps another time.

It sounds like you know what you're looking at , Curmudgeon. I have heard that the 2.4L is a sweet runner. Gas consumption should be less and, let's face it, you're not going to be drag racing a MkII anyway.

I respectfully disagree with my colleague, Mr. Jam regarding the value of RHD. My XJ12L is RHD and I had to get past a lot of bidders to buy it. I certainly paid a premium for it. The same car with LHD would not have gone nearly as high. That said, Hemmings Motor News latest issue's auction coverage noted a RR Silver Shadow with RHD as being a deterrent in their opinion. There are some, - like your contacts, the bidders on my car, and myself - who think RHD is a plus and adds value to the car. Others - like JAM and Hemmings editors - see it as a negative.

Yes, you'll have to park and go inside instead of going through the drive up but that will be offset by the scads of positive compliments and comments from bystanders. I saw two strangers in separate cars the other day pointing and smiling at my car. Through my rear view mirror, I saw them chatting about it to each other. It does draw attention. A Jag with RHD is just so... British. A fellow club member here in St. Louis has a RHD MkII in Moss Green which is just about the most charming Jag I've seen. The one you're looking at from Singapore is even more interesting coming from the far flung empire where the sun never sets.

If you like the car, I say buy it and run it for a while. I think the RHD will grow on you and you'll like that aspect of the car. That was my experience anyway.

Best regards

Still negotiating with the spouse.
Car isn't going anywhere soon.

Keep you posted.

Cheap is, well, cheap.

More than I've paid for a personal car, ever.
My wife's Explorer was a bit more, but that's hers.

My 50 Ford Tudor was $125 thirty-eight years ago.
My 49 Willys wagon was $20 thirty-three years ago.
My 50 Ford F-1 was $350 eighteen or nineteen years ago.
Still have all of those.

Next up was a 1967 Cougar, bought in 1970, from a dealer for $1425.
Traded that off when kid #2 showed up.

This vehicle is more than those.

Go fer it! How cheap is cheap? How about a picture when you get it home? It is not everyday that people get lucky like that. Get a picture posted here!

JAM-
This one runs, runs well, needs some cosmetic stuff, and it is an entry point.
If I had 30 grand to drop, I'd do it.

Having run Flatheads for 45 years, daily, and knowing how to maintain and bring them up to snuff, and having done all the Btit work in several shops over the years, I just figured this was an opening.

I mean, this one is CHEAP!
And, you can drive it home.

JAM-
This one runs, runs well, needs some cosmetic stuff, and it is an entry point.
If I had 30 grand to drop, I'd do it.

Having run Flatheads for 45 years, daily, and knowing how to maintain and bring them up to snuff, and having done all the Btit work in several shops over the years, I just figured this was an opening.

I mean, this one is CHEAP!
And, you can drive it home.

Interesting!
First one, e-mail bounces back.

Second one, well, the asking price is SUBSTANTIALLY more than this 2.4L unit.
Don't mind the work and manual labour to convert, somewhat skilled in that area.

Learned something new.
I was always under the impression that the so-called Mark I was a 2-year run, with the MKII starting in 1959.
Yet, the second link shows a 1960 MKI, with the obvious door window surround components of a MKI, the center-mounted instrument cluster.
At least I can expand my years of MKI search by another model year!

Thanks for the words of wisdom.
The only fly in the ointment is this is the first RUNNING Jag in a price range I could afford I have seen since, oh, 1968, when I passed up an XK-120 DHC, running, perfect (except for a bad voltage regulator) in Southern California for $1099.
That's $99 more than a grand, drive it home.

But, the TET Offensive was beginning, 2-S college deferrments were going away, and it was time to do something else.

well, if money is an issue, then you end up (usually) with a car that needs everything and you still have to spend the money. And these cars are rising in price especially those in great condition. If you have good credit, you can get a Classic Car Loan at a number of companies who specialize in that, if you don't have good credit, don't even bother checking with them. Let's see: are you paying too much for a car that needs everything fixed? Or is the car a bargain As Is? That's the point to decide.

George: the name I use is the name I use. I don't plan to change it. I'm sure TOC isn't changing it either. Otherwise all your points are exactly like mine, i.e., driving a RHD car in the USA is problematic in all the ways you mentioned and then some. I am not the one advertising the 1960 "MK-I" so I have no clue why the seller is selling it as a MK-1.

TOC, a better value for your money is the 1963-1968 3.8 'S' also known as the original S type. Those have IRS, twin tanks, twin exhausts, and are less cramped inside. Then there's the 420 which came after the S type but with the 4.2 engine and a different front grille.

I've heard it said about the MK-II and I have driven a MK-II, they "drive like a truck". The S type and the 420 have more refined suspensions and ride. Having said that, most people like the REAR styling of the MK-II. A matter of taste and compromises.

Interesting!
First one, e-mail bounces back.

Second one, well, the asking price is SUBSTANTIALLY more than this 2.4L unit.
Don't mind the work and manual labour to convert, somewhat skilled in that area.

Learned something new.
I was always under the impression that the so-called Mark I was a 2-year run, with the MKII starting in 1959.
Yet, the second link shows a 1960 MKI, with the obvious door window surround components of a MKI, the center-mounted instrument cluster.
At least I can expand my years of MKI search by another model year!

Thanks for the words of wisdom.
The only fly in the ointment is this is the first RUNNING Jag in a price range I could afford I have seen since, oh, 1968, when I passed up an XK-120 DHC, running, perfect (except for a bad voltage regulator) in Southern California for $1099.
That's $99 more than a grand, drive it home.

But, the TET Offensive was beginning, 2-S college deferrments were going away, and it was time to do something else.

JAM and TOC how about names--that said the 2.4 MK2 was available in LHD or RHD and could be ordered in NA just few did. While they are down on power they rev very well as the engine is square(er). BTW JAM the 1960 can not be a 2.4/3.4 saloon (AKA MK1) as production was ended long prior---could be titled that way possibly but it would have been a tough sell if so. Driving a RHD in a LHD world presents only a few problems (the biggest is passing) driving---most problems are toll roads/bank drive up/ or fast food drive up!

Edited on 2008-04-30 11:30:31

if you're in the USA, a LHD is the best option, for a number of reasons which I will spare you.

MK-II LHD, as far as I know, came with 3.4 or 3.8 engines, not 2.4. The 2.4 was in the MK-1 and possibly the RHD MK-II. I am told that the 2.4 has little power.

If the price is right, buy it. But don't expect a lot of buyers if you decide to sell it later, because RHD cars in the USA do not sell quickly.

Converting a RHD to LHD is at the very least, expensive and to do that you have to find a DONOR car, and that will wear you out. Lots of people start to do it and then they give up.

Start out with the car you want. MK-1 are showing up on eBay all the time. A '57 in nice condition is the car you need to look for. Buying these cars in bad shape does not pay.

here's a 1957 MK-I in great shape being sold privately:

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1957jaguarmk1033005.htm

here's a 1960:

http://www.classicsandcustoms.com/search/Jaguar_Mk_1_16160.asp

(if you click on the above links and nothing happens, then copy each and paste it in the web address box, or manually type it on the web address box after you erase whatever is showing there).