What do we need to do? Ideas solicited

Yowza Loui and Steve,
Steve, I agree with Dan, the N.E.R.D acronym needs to be changed, I'm glad I wasn't the first to bring it up.
Meanwhile, with regards to the issue of "how would you know who was voting?"..... There are a myriad of ways for that particular issue to be addressed. Password protection seems easy enough with the each Club's president receiving their own before the issue is voted upon.
If ..."someone" was to misappropriate it for nefarious purposes there are ways that it can be managed, but I don't believe that there is a "conspiracy" to out their waiting to pounce upon this particular issue.
Let's be real. nobody looks at ID's at the AGM so you could be "snowballed or ringered" there, so why isn't that an issue?
I believe you're taking me way too seriously in some areas. There is no "innuendo" with regards to they way the last AGM handled the Driven Class rules. The AGM... DID NOT follow the prescribed Parlimentary Procedure BUT and it's a very BIG BUT, the ruling passed because no one knew enough to protest at the time of the AGM.
So we have rules, we just have to be ever viligant to make sure they are followed otherwise anything goes? That doesn't seem kosher in my mind.
Last I knew officers of the club were supposed to uphold the rules of the club, period.
The rules are to be of primary consideration when doing club's business not used only when someone objects.
I have no issues with the way our Club voted or any other Clubs for that matter, but I would be interested to know what the prcedures for "Proxy" voting are and if any of the Clubs that gave their proxy had an issue with the way their vote was utilized. Have a Good Day, Bob Lovell

Steve: how about a name change from N.E.R.D.? How about RD(NE)?

Gentlemen:

Please, let's keep this discussion down to a dull roar. I was very explicit in the ground rules for the thread. Do not criticize one another, do not criticize someone else's ideas. The sole purpose for this thread was to elicit ideas, good, bad or indifferent; big or small. Yelling at one another accomplishes nothing, so please stop.

In the meantime, thank you to everyone who has taken the time to post your ideas. It's nice to see people thinking outside the box. Whether we implement someone's idea or not is not the point. I had hoped to stimulate some alternative thinking for the club. Let's stick to that, for now.

Thanks again and let's keep the ideas flowing.

Steve

Bob, you continue with insults and innuendo, that is not how to win an argument. I understand your proposal. I disagree with it and stated my reasons for disagreement. You chose to deride my opinions. I did not return the favor. I further stated what I have observed. BTW, I did meet you your club's representatives at the AGM (and I had not been appointed to the membership chair then, nor did I know I would be), and we had a good discussion. That's what is needed between the clubs. Anger and angst will not win arguments or bring clubs together. That is what is needed. If you had a problem on how your reps voted, than you need to bring that to your club. If we open to all to internet, how do we control who is voting? How do we know the actually voter is and he/she is authorized (the AGM delegates are authorized by the clubs in writing and have to identify themselves to get the credentials) by the club. After all we cannot see on the AGM side who is actually casting the vote. Please tell me how you would do this and then maybe I will support it, but the way the proposal is now there is no control.

Yowza Louis,
Being limited with regards to the time/space continuum, my transporter room is currently down, it's not JUST a day for the meeting! There are costs that go way beyond just "going" to a meeting. Travel,tolls, hotels, meals, and more importantly time.
Last time I checked "time" was pretty valuable as an ounce of gold won't buy you a second more. You seem to be aware of the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
The member's apathy you currently reap is due to the attitude the Club has sown.
Our club also sends delegates each year and on occasion has used a proxy.
This past year they reported back to the Club their accounts, as they do usually. This year was interesting. If I heard correctly the guys representing the Rally side argued amongst themselves for quite a period of time. In my humble opinion the amount of time spent at the AGM was excessive in light of what little was accomplished and improperly executed by Parlimentary Procedures. Why have them IF, we have to "catch" them doing it wrong,why not do it correct in the first place? All that "experience" didn't help follow the rules any better.
Look bottom line here is................, I made a suggestion after it was solicited. IF your specialty is MIS/Management Information Systems, dealing with things like conference-links like I mentioned originally, you might want to brush up on your education. The "problems" you mentioned have already been eliminated and solved with current technology. My company regularly uses conference-links in real-time with video with our other manufacturing affiliates in Europe and the Pacific Rim. It works, just wondering if it's worthwhile and cost effective in this application. If it's not your specialty then you might want to reconsider.
Your response to my initial question is what it is, a useless and pious answer to a question you did not posess the cognitive skills to answer and that IS the example of "attitude" that I commented on earlier and that the AGM demonstrated with their actions with regards to it's membership.
Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell

What attitude? That members are too busy to spend one day at a meeting? How many of your club's members are busy one weekend of the year? That's not attitude on my part, but rather attitude and apathy on many of our members. I was even told that a membership chair was too busy to do his job, and apparently no one wanted to do it either. Now that's apathy in spades. That's not attitude on my part. That's just reporting what I see. I am on fixed income and yet I manage to get to the AGM and its mostly out of my pocket. That's not attitude, but rather enthusiasm. If others don't share that enthusiasm, that fine, but don't complain about votes that you missed or the contacts with other clubs or the missed seminars. All that is part of the AGM as well. The actually sessions for the most part are boring in the extreme. I doubt that many would sit through six or seven hours glued to the monitor. That too is fact. We don't do it for glory, but for the satisfaction of doing the job that needs to be done.

Yowza Louis Kairys,
Havng been involved in with Jaguars and other vehicles for in excess of 30 years, your attitude is abominable and unfortunately typical.
Recently I've startd to question the amount of my time put into various club's activities in light of their increasingly dictatorial attitude that you seem to share.
Realistically, participation has dropped off immensely and all you bring to the table is bustin' someone's round one's. Hope that works out for you and the club.
Meanwhile the Enthusiasts Division that seems to gaining popularity is going to "seeding" the ranks of your members with an attitude that you obviously don't share. Better hope they don't become the majority in the future or you might be scheduled for "deprogramming" of that 'tude you seem so proud to share.
For the record, I thought most members would welcome the technology change/shift of doing things in a more timely and efficient manner.
Hope that sundial on your wrist keeps good time, myself I favor a watch.

Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell
P.S. Hey Pascal, is what I'm asking feasible, your opinion please? R

Edited on 2008-08-01 12:54:37

I like remote podcasts of the AGM with voting in person or by proxy.

I would like a library of streaming videos from all clubs and some reference materials .... some of these resources should be for members only (a perk) some not (to attract new potentional members).
A trip/event/group adventure in th UK would be nice ..

I suggest that Steve W's title be changed
from "Nerd"

D Lokun

I like remote podcasts ....
If a person can't come to the AGM in person to vote then we have a proxy system ....
I suggest a library of streaming videos and reference materials .... some parts of
should be members only (a perk) some not (to attract new potentional members).
A trip/event/group adventure in th UK would be nice ..
D Lokun

Pascal, I agree with you. Having hosted an AGM, I know what one goes through to set it up. However, if we were to combine the two events (and make them annual) I think that we would need to make it a full week, as some of the delegates would most likely want to participate in the events as well. Summer or late Spring, early Autumn would be better weather wise and might coincide with the working member's vacation schedule. March does have its problems, More than one delegate was unable to make the Pittsburgh AGM because of weather affecting their flights (that includes one director).

No this is not an attitude issue, its an apathy issue by many of the clubs. Too many have complained about the AGM and never attended. They find all sorts of excuses and say that their vote was not counted. The problem won't be solved by video vote, you have to be there. Part of the membership problem stems from this apathy. It does get to me at times, I'll admit. However, even as the continental membership chair, there is little that I can do without the support of the clubs, and it is not there. I have sent out over a dozen emails to both the club presidents and the club membership chairs and have received minimum responses mostly from the club presidents. I have offered to contact those members that did not renew via email and only one club responded to that! There are too many problems associated with the remote vote. How do we know that the person who is voting has been authorized by the club to do the vote? In this day of almost universal hacking on the Internet, how can we be sure that the vote even comes from the club? And those are the easy problems. If you want a feed just to see what happens, its not a problem, you can sit there and be bored like the rest of us. Then when things get chaotic, you can get confused like the rest of us as well. However, the AGM is more that just the vote. It like the local clubs is a social event as well. This draws the clubs closer together and renew old friendships. Then there are the seminars. They too are useful. I suppose if we had more money to spend on the AGM we could broadcast the seminars as well. Again the problem is money. Each delegate spends a lot if their own money to attend. Many of us, including me, are on fixed incomes, so we do sacrifice to attend. Remember, the AGM is only a long weekend in March. It does not even have to be a long weekend as you can skip the Friday events and only be there on Saturday. In fact you could fly in early Saturday morning and fly out that evening and not loose more than one day. You would loose a lot of the fun of the AGM, but it could be done. As you know when the AGM will happen about six months ahead of time, surely you can plan your schedule accordingly. Distance is just one excuse that I here, and I am sorry if you don't like my response, but we have been over this a number of times in the past and the only way to solve the AGM problem is for the clubs to be there in force.

Sorry to disagree with you, but distance should not be an excuse. All four Florida clubs made it to Seattle, and that is about as far as you can go within the lower forty-eight (and just short of the furthest club in Vancouver). Besides the Touring Club of New Jersey has four to six members (only two vote of course) every AGM and their distance is about the same as yours.

Lou
==================================================
Typical JCNA attitude....

"Well, it's not a problem for ME, so why should it be a problem for YOU?!"

With an attitude like yours (against anything that attempts to move the club forward into the 21st century and make it more participatory), how you are in charge of increasing club membership is beyond me.

The idea is to INCREASE attendance at the AGM, even if it is done remotely. There's that word again, INCREASE. YOU should support any ideas to INCREASE participation.

What a crappy attitude.

Sorry to disagree with you, but distance should not be an excuse. All four Florida clubs made it to Seattle, and that is about as far as you can go within the lower forty-eight (and just short of the furthest club in Vancouver). Besides the Touring Club of New Jersey has four to six members (only two vote of course) every AGM and their distance is about the same as yours.

Yowza Pascal,
You might be able to tell me...........................
Any reason that the AG Meeting can't be made a little more participatory with a live link that would allow members to see and possibly vote on the issues at hand? Even if it was just one link per club? While I like to travel, the BoD's tend to be 1500 miles or more away and traveling by plane no longer makes sense for a number of reasons.
I hear that a Parlimentarian will also be a regular fixture at the AGM, I hope that is true.
Good Health to You and Yours, Bob Lovell/Jaguar Club of Southern New England

Thank you to everyone who has contributed so far toward this thread. This is exactly what we need. Some local thoughts and suggestion, some global thoughts and suggestions. Don't stop now, folks. Let's keep them coming!!

By the way, there is one post in this thread that baffles me -- it's the one that has no name attached to it, just a * where the name should be. Despite the suggestions by some, I don't think we should close the forums and limit access only to members. But I do believe that we, as a club, should require the use of actual names that our Webmaster can verify. Pascal, please let me know ASAP if that is possible as a requirement to sign up for the website. First names or no names at all is, IMHO, unacceptable on this website. If you have comments to make, we deserve to know who they are coming from.

Again, thanks to everyone and hope we can continue to generate more ideas and suggestions.

Regards,
Steve

Actually I wrote that last one pretty fast, but I got an e-mail from a customer in the middle of it and had to research and answer that. Then I picked up where I left off. I didn't think I had taken that long, but I was wrong.

BTW, I'd have these forums set up by default with e-mail notification, and, of course, notify them that it was being set up. The club level people could turn off the e-mail notification if they wanted.

Mark

Mark, send me your email, I'd like to discus this offline.

That last post was me. (We really need to extend that time out.)

1. How fast will it REALLY go? Rent a dyno and get an objective readout.
2. Track day. Nurburgringen had a MkII going around it at a recent Oldtimers Fest. It was a hoot! Great to see an E scampering with Porsches and Alfas.
3. My folks did gymkhanas in the '50's. They looked like fun.
4. Rescue a wreck. Most clubs have got some money and folks with skills and others who'd want to learn. Locate a sad Jag (get it donated) and put it back on the road in an aggressive amount of time (ala Monster Garage).
5. Join a HotRod PowerCruise and see if we can get a Jag pictured in the magazine.
6. Socially responsible now; how about an MPG rally with an emphasis on economical driving, reasonable maintenance, and maybe a humourous "magical miracle mileage" gizmo test.
7. Have a tech test at each meeting; like tire pressure, or tread depth, or coolant mix, or battery levels, or alternator output,or headlight aiming.
8. Have a product test at each meeting; such as leather conditioner, or Rain-Ex, or halogene light bulbs, or a coolant additive. Pep Boys may be glad to demonstrate or give coupons.
9. See if the Heritage Trust will give a group discount.
10. Crash another car club's meeting and steal their good ideas or just report back at what a bunch of disorganized fogeys they are and feel great about ourselves.
11. Cross cultures and enter a low rider car show; hey Jags can be cool.
12. Go to a race. Jag history was not built on polishing rags and q-tips; think LeMans or Watkins Glen or even your local track or strip for a club night out.
13. Where do the other car guys cruise? Park some class rides out there on a Friday night and turn up the Pavarotti on your Bose.
14. Have a tool or cleaning product comparison; tire shiner A looks greasy beside product B. Here is a really good battery charger or the best jack stand. Information new members can use and benefit from the experience of the old guys.
15 Jags are tasteful straight from the factory and original is all the rage. However, stick the president's XJ on a CAD program and let other members play "Pimp my Ride" with it.

Ummm... you said outside the box, right?

I agree with Stew on items of access to our JCNA Forum arena. I for one have yet to hear who the board members were , who changed the Driven regs proposal etc last AGM. Several years ago the JCNA Committees were formed by members who had great experience in each field, the recomendations of the Concours Rules Committee I believe should have been given right of way .

I also like reducing the number of classes. The JCNA should look at the years and models typically shown in the last five years. This will give us a good idea of what is typically shown at all the shows and then we can look at which classes could be combined, at least for the local shows. IÔÇÖd be more than happy to help out on that. We could also look at retaining all the classes for Challenge Championships or Western States events. Some of the newer classes should be dropped or combined. For example all of the current models should be in one class by 3 year groups. I judged a brand new XK entered in Nashville three Concours seasons ago and felt it was ridiculous and unfair to have that car in the same class as a 2000 XK-8. So all S-type, X-type, XF, XK and XJ8ÔÇÖs manufactured from 2006 to 2008 would be grouped in one Champion and one Driven class. Perhaps do the same for the next oldest three years, 2003 to 2005 S-type, X-type, XK-8, XK and XJ8ÔÇÖs. This would make it fairer for the owners of older cars.

I would not like to see the Driven class eliminated. Many people show in that class and enjoy it. However, the whole set of rules concerning cars in Driven classes should be reviewed for consistency, common sense and what might be viewed by some as favoritism. It makes no sense to allow some deviations like after market radios for example in Driven and not others that were dealer installed when the car was purchased and too costly to correct. A 1996 XJS with a brand new radio with a pop up navigation screen and flashing lights installed by Best Buy is okay but pin stripes added by the dealer are not. That rule enacted at the 2007 AGM eliminated three of our members from showing their cars this year. Those three, all North American winners, routinely traveled to up to four other clubs Concours. Only one is showing another car this year and has cut his participation down to only three shows when he used to do a minimum of five a year. HeÔÇÖs also made comments that this is probably his last year except for his local show.

Any proposed new rules should first be reviewed against the protest committee decisions from past protests. If there is a potential conflict with a past decision it should not be allowed. New rules, in addition to being posted on the JCNA website, should be sent to the clubs for inclusion in newsletters and or discussion at their club meetings. The deadline for new rules should be far enough in advance that our members can react and comment. In fact, I donÔÇÖt think itÔÇÖs a bad idea to read and vote on a rule in one AGM then if it passes, it has to be voted on and approved again the following year before it officially goes into effect. We need to really take a hard look at new rules and the impact they have on our members and their participation.

Based on the outrage generated by the new rule allowing trailering of Driven class cars, all proxies submitted by those clubs that canÔÇÖt attend an AGM should have all of the proposed rule changes listed on them with a yes or no check box so the clubs can better indicated how they want their votes cast. That would mean a new proxy form would be posted on the JCNA web site each year. If the rule is changed at the AGM beyond what the general membership understood then it should be tabled and the vote deferred until the next AGM and posted as a suggested rule change for the following year.

Jim McDonald

Carolina Jaguar Club held it's concours on June 28 at the Little Switzerland Inn in Little Switzerland, NC. We had 9 Champion, 21 Driven and 9 in Display class. 2 cars didn't make it due to mechanical failure. There were at least 6 former national first place winners on the field. We had 21 judges of which 15 had cars entered 15 in JCNA judging and 6 in Display. 3 judges were visitors from other clubs. All entries were required to pre-register and paid the same fee. Several people drove their Jaguars up to see what we were doing and we got 3 new members from that group. Of the entries we had 19 classes and 16 classes had only 1 or 2 cars. 1 entrant came from Louisiana, 1 from N.Georgia, 6 from Smokey Montain and 2 from Virginia. Rags down was at 10AM and judging was completed by 1PM with every judge mindful of staying at 15 minutes on a car and a judging schedule was given to the judges. So 30 cars were judged by JCNA rules and the 9 display cars were peoples choice. We gave club imprinted glass decanters with 2 wine clases for 1st place, a glasses to 2nd place,and a carafe to third . The awards were based on point score so of 9 Championship cars there were 3 firsts, 3 seconds and 3 thirds without class disticntion. We did the same for Driven class by dividing the 21 cars in thirds. The Display class was awarded a first, second and third but each participant received a show memento. We had 3 of our club members participate for the first time in JCNA competition.

During the year we have encouraged members to show their cars regardless of whether or not they thought they could compete. The setting was a new venue for us and was an all inclusive weekend at a mountain resort. Entrants enjoyed this event and we expect an even larger turnout next year if we use the same location. I think the way we handled awards overcame the too many JCNA classes.

A few cars were trailered but the majority were driven to the event. It is important to include cars which are pristine, driven more frequently and those that are daily drivers. We encouraged socialization and interest in the cars people brought including about 8 cars belonging to specttators. This year we lost some members but made up for them with new members and we have exceeded our last year end total. Our members are encouraged to talk to other Jag owners and ask them to join our club. We tracked the members we lost and some have rejoined after being contacted.

I like the idea of reducing some of the classes but I remember when I had to campaign my 91 XJS coupe next to a red 96 convertible so we must be careful of how many classes to condense so we don't discourage entrants. I think the Champion, Driven and a Display or enthusiast class which would be judged by popular vote is a successful breakdown with somewhat of a reduction of categories in Champion and Driven.

As a club, CJC, unanimously passed a resolution against the trailering rule adopted this year. Personally, I didn't think the new rule makes much differenc other than the fact that our members in Driven class believe that the definition should be literal.

Ron Kuligowski, President
Carolina Jaguar Club

91 XJS Coupe
05 XK8 Convertible

A couple of quick ideas - take 'em or leave 'em:

Concours events that combine a Tech session & Concours (and draws Enthusiasts)?
>> Such as a car detailing session and Q&A by club members - under a shade tent. It would not interfere with on-going judging since it is meant for the Enthuisiast. Could be product agnostic or product specific - depending on sponsorship.
Maintenance participation and being Green.

>> Free tire pressure checks with a quality guage upon field entry (and inflation if needed to recommended or owners specs) - would be a good Club PR service and a way to be "green".

Thanks for this constructive Forum!

Steve,
I believe that forum access should be limited to members, or alternately, non-members should somehow be be automatically identified as such. Real names should be mandatory when using the forums.

The BOD should stay out of details and concentrate on the BIG picture. Details are what committees are for.

That Weinstein guy is a real weenie...

Oops, did I just break rule #1?

I too have trying to get suggestions on what to do, as you know. Membership is one of our most critical problems. I know the Membership Committee and I are working hard to turn this around, but we need help, Please tell us how we can do our job better. Thanks for starting this, Steve

That Weinstein guy is a real weenie...

Oops, did I just break rule #1?