Proposal #3 ÔÇô Consolidate Champion, Special and Driven Division Classes to Eliminate Excessive Number

1) Problem: JCNA has 42 classes; a ridiculous number considering the level of participation at local shows, leading to non-competitive classes and high expenses that clubs must recoup by having high entry fees
2) Purpose
a. Increase the competitiveness in the Champion Division
b. Increase the competitiveness in the Driven Division
c. Enhance the significance of local, regional and national awards
d. Reduce club expenditure for local awards thereby allowing a reduction in concours entry fees if a club so chooses
3) Driven and Champion Divisions to have identical classification scheme
a. Reduces confusion
b. if the divisions are integrated on the show field, placement of the cars is simplified (Class 3 is Class 3, no need to have different signs)
4) Proposed Classes are as follows:
a. D/C1 ÔÇô All classics (same as current D1)
b. D/C2 ÔÇô All E-types (same as combined current D2/3/4)
c. D/C3 ÔÇô All early small and large saloons (same as current D5)
d. D/C4 ÔÇô Early XJ6/12 (same as current D6)
e. D/C5 ÔÇô Late model XJ6/12 (same as current D7 plus D10 X308 only)
f. D/C6 ÔÇô All XJ-S (same as combined current D8A/8B)
g. D/C7 ÔÇô Late model XK (same as current D9A)
h. D/C8 ÔÇô Late model S-type (same as current D11)
i. D/C9 ÔÇô All current production (same as combined current D9B/12 plus D10 X350 only)
j. D/C10 ÔÇô All Specials (combined current S1/2/3/4)
k. D/C11 ÔÇô Preservation cars (combined current C19A/B)

Submitted by dthompson@gbc.ca on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 16:34

I agree and I'd take it even further. Get JCNA out of the local clubs completely. Make JCNA a national club all on its own who will write its own rules and run its own concours and cut the local clubs off completely. Let them be 100% independent. They can do whatever they want, charge whatever they want, give out whatever trophies they want and give whatever points to want to whomever they want.

Submitted by GallantCSC@aol.com on Thu, 07/17/2008 - 17:31

Bill Jenkins said...

"I think it's a bad idea to combine driven and championship into one class. Some people don't want to clean their engine compartments and want to put on silly wheels and car stereos with modern day conveniences as built-in video, bluetooth or whatever. Good for them, then driven is the class for them. I like keeping my car completely stock and detailing my engine compartment and boot and PRESERVING the car so championship is the class for me.

I also think it's stupid to lump in Series I, II & III XJ6 with XJ40s, X300s and X308s. I can possibly see combining Classes 10, 11 & 12 but c'mon, the XJ40/X300/X308 are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT cars from the SeriesI/II/III XJ6s! Having a 1970 Series I XJ6 competing against a 2002 X308 is ridiculous and throwing "All current production" into one class doesn't make any sense either."

Firstly, I never said to eliminate Driven. I said make Driven and Champion classes the same. Please read again.

Secondly, I am not proposing lumping Series I, II & III XJ6 with XJ40s, X300s and X308s. Please re-read. The Series cars are in D/C4 and the XJ40/X300/X308 are in D/C5. Don't confuse the categories. I am referencing the Driven classes since they are already partially combined compared with the Champion classes.

Submitted by mark1mark@jagu… on Thu, 07/17/2008 - 11:12

Steve W.,

Actually, no. that's not my post. It's William Jenkins (look up two posts from that one). I have a feeling he refreshed the page which automatically resends it, losing the personal data. (I'm learning the idiosyncracies of the forums. :-p)

If we're considering giving the local clubs the flexibility to reduce the number of trophies awarded, the number of JCNA classes becomes moot. In that case, I'd propose that we recognize the best examples of every model produced by Jaguar, at least in Champion Division, pursuant to the other rules. Think of it this way. Right now the small saloons are Mark 1, Mark 2, S-types, and 420. In terms of value, the Mark 2 is the class of that field and the other three are stepchildren. People are willing to put more time and money into Mark 2s because they are the premier Jaguar saloon. The other three don't get the attention. If the mission of JCNA is to preserve the marque, we should encourage the preservation of all models.

Submitted by NE52-32043 on Thu, 07/17/2008 - 09:58

Message to Mark S,

I assume that it is your post that appears two above my last posting. For some reason, your name does not appear. This seems to be a continuing problem that I know Pascal is looking into. For the time being, perhaps you could sign your name at the end as part of your posted text, so at least we know who made the posting.

Thanks,
Steve

Submitted by NE52-32043 on Thu, 07/17/2008 - 09:55

To Steve G and Steve K and anyone else following these threads,

Please see my response as posted to Steve G's general statement in his first thread prior to making the separate proposals. In substance, I suggest that this is not a matter for the Board to consider. Rather, this belongs to JCRC. If it is to be submitted as a proposal anywhere, it should be going to JCRC, not to the BoD.

Submitted by arsenaultd@ear… on Wed, 07/16/2008 - 20:00

I would suggest that classes originally because there were too many relatively different cars competing against one another and it didn't make sense. From what I know, at one time a 1987 XJ6 had to compete with a 2004 XJ8. At one time a 1976 XJS had to compete with a 1996. Maybe we have too many classes for certain cars, but I would suggest that rather than speculate, you take the last 3 years's concours results club by club and analyze which classes had the highest incidence of a single car competing. I would recommend that if you are going to formally submit this as a proposal you should do some homework up front and have supporting evidence for each class you plan to eliminate or consolidate.

Once again, reduction of fees, I do not see as a valid reason for change, $25 to $35, what every show i have ever attended to date has charged is not a significant amount of money compared to the cost of fuel to get there, lunch, and or an overnight stay if required.

Submitted by wljenkins@usa.net on Wed, 07/16/2008 - 18:03

Steve, I don't think you've thought this out very well.

First off, it's your OPINION that there is a "problem" in the first place. I don't see a problem at all therefore I don't see any reason to change the structure of the classes. Is the cost of the trophy REALLY that much of the entry fee? If so then reduce the entry fee accordingly and don't give such expensive trophies. I've attended other JCNA sanctioned concours and they don't give out the expensive trophies like our club does. Personally, I like the JCNA trophies so feel free to jack my entry fee as high as you want.

I think XKE Series I, Series II and Series III should be in SEPARATE classes like they are for championship, maybe even for driven as well.

I think it's a bad idea to combine driven and championship into one class. Some people don't want to clean their engine compartments and want to put on silly wheels and car stereos with modern day conveniences as built-in video, bluetooth or whatever. Good for them, then driven is the class for them. I like keeping my car completely stock and detailing my engine compartment and boot and PRESERVING the car so championship is the class for me.

I also think it's stupid to lump in Series I, II & III XJ6 with XJ40s, X300s and X308s. I can possibly see combining Classes 10, 11 & 12 but c'mon, the XJ40/X300/X308 are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT cars from the SeriesI/II/III XJ6s! Having a 1970 Series I XJ6 competing against a 2002 X308 is ridiculous and throwing "All current production" into one class doesn't make any sense either.

I'm completely against everything about this proposal and I would hope that it doesn't get submitted and if it does get submitted, that it gets shot down.