E type values

Hello Doug, I have just seen these other comments. I didn't think I was "defining" a classic car owner but simply stating one of the things that one would assume most have in common. Would you not agree? I obviously didn't make myself clear re selling, i have sold too many, but never at an auction in the USA. I did know someone who never sold a car, I believe he is stiil a member of JOCLA, but a few months ago he made up for it by auctioning off a few hundred of them from his collection. regards. "blink"

Hi, George,

Thanks for posting your question here. Sounds like a nice car. Matching numbers is a positive when selling. To confirm that you have a matching numbers car, obtain a Heritage Certificate - Here's the place to get it ordered:
http://www.jcna.com/library/heritage.html

I love my 1971 Series III V12, manual, FHC 2+2.
Your car is an automatic, which reduces the price a bit, but the fact that it is a convertible increases it.

I suggest you buy a small but information-packed book by Pete Crespin, Jaguar E-type V12 5.3 litre: The Essential Buyer's Guide (Paperback), under $20. The knowlege shared in that book is for buyers, which can only help you when selling. You'll find it on Amazon.com. Make sure you get it for the Series III.

A great tool for keeping an eye on prices is here:
http://www.jaguarauctionwatch.com

Also, check out www.xkedata.com and add your car to the list.

I wish you the best,

Yes, I agree with the color thing. For me, it would be Navy blue or Silver; perhaps BRG.
But Sable, Primrose, Red are colors I'd stay away from. A friend here in our club just bought a set (5) of Dunlop wheels, about 2500 bucks. They look very good on his silver convertible Series 3 E-Type.

I don't mind the open headlights, really. The only safety/USA reg change that I find really objectionable is the rear tail lights.....which were "cleaned up" quite a it on the Ser III E-types.

If the day comes that an E-type is in the cards for me a V12 will be my most likely choice.

One thing I've noticed, and its probably just me, is that the Ser III cars seem to be more color sensitive. That is, the early cars seem to look good in any color. The Ser IIIs, though, just don't look right in some colors.

Perhaps its because some of the 70s colors just don't suit my tastes regardless of what car they're on ?

Sorry for the ramble

Cheers
DD

Edited on 2009-01-26 10:35:45

I agree with Doug. The original post from George simply stated that he wanted to sell the car. It is none of our business as to why. Perhaps he needs to pay for college tuition, or medical bills, or he has simply grown tired of the upkeep and needs space. George is a big boy and is capable of making his own decisions.

The question at hand (for this forum thread) was to advise him of the current market; and options to consider in selling the car, given the condition of the car as per photographs we were given to analyze. And yes, of course, a knowledgable pair of eyes on the car itself by an "appraiser" (and I use that term loosely) is a good idea. More than likely, there are many more problems with this car that we on this forum are not aware of, nor could ever be. It is not proper to try to "shame" him into not selling the car, or to lay a guilt trip on him.

As to the front bumpers on a Series 3, there is little doubt they are a "distraction" thanks to the US's quest to minimize repair costs....which all things considered, was not a bad thing for the consumer in general. Obviously, Jaguar needed to comply in order to maintain USA sales, but ultimately, it was yet one more thing that led to the demise of the E-Type. But let's face it...from 1961 to 1975 is a pretty good run for any model design. (I'm reminded of the saying that E-Types are much better suited in driving around brick walls than they are to drive into them). But anyone who owns an E-Type realizes just how fragile that bonnet is.

The great thing about Series 3 E-Types is the flared fender wells, fatter tires, and a beast of a fantastic engine. The front bumpers can be dealt with and "toned down" so to speak. (The hard thing is finding an original manual shift Series 3). Each series had it's detractions. Many disliked the emissions control found on Series 2, and perhaps rocker-type panel switches. Although everyone tends to like the Series 1 headlight covers, you don't know what a PITA they are to keep clean on the inside, and how dim your headlights actually are due to the lens. The change to open lights was a great move from a safety / maintenance standpoint, but perhaps a cosmetic bummer.

I for one believe that E-Types are greatly under-priced given their heritage, performance, and beauty, but there's darn little I can do about it.

Anyway, I got off-topic....sorry about that.

[blink]

William, thanks for defining what a "Real Classic car owner" is. I guess anyone not falling into your definition, what? Un-real ? Are you are higher quality person or more devoted enthusiast because you have never sold a car?

Seems to me that Patrick has adressed the original question by offering some useful input and advice on what George's options might be.

You've offered your judgemental opinion of what a "Real Classic car owner" should be.

DD

Edited on 2009-01-25 17:17:34

You're completely off-topic, William. No one is talking about "buying to make money". Investing for monetary gain via classic car buying and selling is a whole different can of worms, and at best, it's a crap shoot just like every other kind of investment.

Edited on 2009-01-25 13:01:09

The sentiment expressed by Patrick is unfortunately the type of thing that causes widespread ignorance -as per the Lucas (prince of darkness) nonsense. Real Classic car owners -as opposed to speculators)do not buy to make money, they buy because they LIKE IT, and they want to keep it. To put any credibility in the comments of auction personell is ridiculous we all know how they work here in the US. I have purchased many cars at auction but I have never sold one, they are ?Buyers Markets" Even, apparently, for Jeremy Folsom, who bought the 1970 Cuda six pac two years ago for $2.47 Million . Do not store the E, drive it, enjoy it, and you will quickly realize you want to keep it! There are very few good cars found on the sale lists, most of what is available has "hidden history" or are quick refurbishes -paint and interior. As for bumpers, colours, wheels, transmission type, RH or LD drive etc, these are all subjective issues. The warm weather will be here in a couple of months, lets get ready to get our machines out on the road where they should be! ps, George, if you want to know what your car is worth get it appraised, no one here can possibly tell you. pps; Simon, it costs about $600 US to convert the bumpers of 73 & 74 cars.

Although there are many collectors who will not be adversely affected by the recession / depression, I suspect they will look much more carefully on their future purchases. Of course, there are a great many more potential buyers that will refrain from $70k purchases, including those for E-Types regardless of which series. Naturally, this will drive the prices down as more and more folks get out from under collector cars while they can, creating an abundance of available cars.

But I think we will see this reduction in prices much sooner than later, as most of us can see what's on the hroizon w/ new administration.

One thing nobody has mentioned is the front bumpers on Series 3 cars which due to Federal regulations were only supplied for cars exported to ther US. However in the UK or Continental Europe they are an absolute no no!. I dont know how they are viewed in the States but on this side of the pond they would have a very adverse effect on the sale price.

As a general comment E-Type prices, in Europe are holding up (& even increasing) at the moment. The arguement, especially from Dealers, is that physical assets which give fun are a better bet than stocks & shares or property. Despite these optomistic comments I doubt whether the Classic Car market can decouple from the real world & expect prices to radically reduce over the next 2 to 3 years years.

Quite frankly, I think you should forget adverstising it for now and be prepared to sit on it for another 5 years or so. In the meantime, casually keep watch of the market, and if S-3 E-Types start to elevate to your liking, then sell it at auction then. As I believe this recession will be long and deep, it may take more than 5 years for prices to "recover".

You can blow a ton of cash with photo ads on Hemmings, local newspapers, Auto Traders, etc., but I believe you will reach the highest percentage of people on EBay. And even then, it may take continual listings until someone comes along who may be interested.

Biggest concern is that of properly maintaining this car during this period of storage so that when you do decide to sell, everything works. You might put it up for auction at $35K (wiith reserve) and just get out from under it now.

Patrick

Well it looks like I missed a spirited discussion over the last few days. I appreciate all of the comments and thoughts, and having done some more research, I would tend to agree with Patrick's comments. While I would love to get $55k for the car, I'm not sure that is realistic in the current market, as the Series III cars seem to be rather unloved (on a relative basis to the S1 & SII cars at least), and while my car is a respectable driver quality car, it won't win any concourse by any means. In looking at auction results in past years from Russo & Steele and a few other AZ auctioneers, I concluded that the car would likely bring somewhere in the $45k range at auction, perhaps more if I were lucky enough to have two inebriated bidders in the room, netting me around $40k after commission and transportation costs. At this amount, I would rather keep the car, and decided not to send it to auction at this point (although Kruse has a sale at the end of this week that has me wondering....). Other than this board and Hemmings, are there any suggestions for advertising venues to get the car exposed to the right audience? Again, thanks for all of the comments.

The way the market is right now, and the fact that this is a '74, automatic, and probably at the lower end of the "driver" range means you would be lucky to get $35k for it. It would probably move fast at $25k.

Best of luck with the sale.

Daniel

Having bought a 70 FHC last August, I have some observations for what they're worth (my observations, not the cars). I spent a number of months researching alternatives, mostly Series II and III.
E-Bay had lots of info, both good and bad. It seemed that most higher priced cars went unsold and I got the impression that Series III sellers (private and dealers) were looking for $40-50K and up but the cars were not moving. Most sounded and looked to be nice but descriptions and photos can be very deceiving. I backed off the Series III due to the number of sellers and few sales. I have not re-visited but I cannot believe the current economy has helped the sellers.
Haverty.com has a short review of upcoming auctions and features a 73 Series III at Goodings Scottsdale, with the following comment. ".......Automatics bring much less, but the 4-speed cars with A/C and wire wheels have broken the $60,000 barrier before retreating recently. This (featured car) could be a good buy between $35,000 and $45,000 depending on equipment and condition. No wire wheels hurt, and Sable is not everyone's favorite flavor".
As I said, for what it's worth - I have no personal opinion on current values. Good Luck

Alan Barclay

Edited on 2009-01-09 18:25:43

Sounds like a sweet ride ... DL

Thats very interesting I have a red roadster just returned from both shops engine and paint. Bare metal on paint, and total rebuild with 2 year warranty on motor or 5k miles by local jag guy here on the central coast . matching #s 63 It seems like these cars are hard to find . Are they still pretty saleable and I wonder and at what price

Thats very interesting I have a red roadster just returned from both shops engine and paint. Bare metal on paint, and total rebuild with 2 year warranty on motor or 5k miles by local jag guy here on the central coast . matching #s 63 It seems like these cars are hard to find . Are they still pretty saleable and I wonder and at what price

Edited on 2009-01-08 17:36:02

It's still my personal opinion of the SIII market, that an S-III is/should be worth $50-70 USD if in good nick. I did look too closely at he car in issue. Defects would obviously reduce my suggested price range on a case by case basis. So a rusty scruffy car at $30k sounds right too. (As an aside, I preveresely like raggamuffin cars).

A distressed seller can sell a SIII in good nick for $35k or $20k or whatever bargain price he wants. It's free market and anyone can have a 1/2 price sale if he wants. I have chased these "bargain dream cars" ... Some got away and some I bought and some were absolute unholy dogs unsellable at any price IMHO (way, way beyond raggamuffins) ...

If the whole XKE market is crashing ... Well, that's not a surprise in these panicky times but it's news to me as I am not presently buying OR selling (I am 100% full-up on cars and projects).

Regards,
D Lokun

'59 XK150-S / "The Witchbitch"
'59 Mk IX / Non-runner
'62 XKE / "Red October"
'90 XJ-S / "Blossom"
'90(?)X-JS Jr. / "Junior"

And let's be clear.....George posted the photos and asked what we thought it was worth. I have nothing personal against him or Series 3 cars. But this is obviously a re-sprayed car, and judging from the bubbles in the paint, not a very good one.

Did anyone happen to study these photos? Did any of you who commented notice the heavy rust on the inner front fenders on the bonnet (first frame of photos)...or the inner area of the rear wheel? What's up with that?

Still think its worth 70 grand?

Just for discussion sake, let's take a snapshot of what's available on EBay, and, only those that have a "buy it now" price attached.

There are FIVE Series 3 E-Types for sale on EBay for between $27,500 and $39,000. Many more for even LESS money where a reserve has not been met.

There are only TWO that are in the $70,000 - $75,000 range, one of which only has 6K miles on it.

So let's take one in particular, a 1973 all original car with only 42K miles. This car can be bought today for only $35,000. Take a look at the photos on THIS auction, and then compare those on the BRG/biscuit car in discussion, bubbled paint and all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-JAGUAR-XKE-V-12-COUPE-ONLY-42K-ORIG-...

So, exactly where does this $70,000 notion come in? And you say I'm $20,000 short on my estimate? This, my friend is the current market, like it or not.

Patrick

Well, that moved us off topic a little. Why would you say Mr Obama wants us to be in Europe? Does he have an e type? Or, as I suspect, if it was just a political sling shot, I would say that most sensible people who have an interest in preserving humanity, understand exactly what his intentions are!

Edited on 2009-01-07 15:25:52

I love the V12's as well, and I wish I had one! And I for one, believe that all E-Types are woefully under-priced given their history and performance.

But hype or not, this is the real world, and, we're not in Europe. Perhaps Mr. George Eshaghian will do us the favor of reporting back
on what this car fetched at auction.

P

Sorry for the O/T commnet

Patrick; your 2 cents worth seems to be more like $20K. in the opinion of many the V12E is the best of all E types, this can be seen in the European pricing index. That we in the US are hooked on Series1, rag top; wire wheels. 4 speed ETC is a product of the classic car investment hype. Try finding a NICE V12E at any price! Value in fact is what the seller and buyer agree to, often, when a classic is sold here -in order to evade the excessive sales tax- a much lower value is given, so the KBB etc prices mean nothing. ps, the front rotors on my 05 XKR rust up if i dont drive it for a couple of weeks.

Well Dan, respectfully, I think your 70K range is way off mark, especially on this car. I see bubbles under the paint as well as rusty calipers. There are probably many other issues that don't show in a photograph.

I get the impression that this gentleman is simply looking to unload this E-Type quickly, as per the auction statement. To sell a car like this for 70K will require he advertise the heck out of it and sit on it for a long time until the right buyer comes along. This car is not worth 70K, and advertising that kind of price is simply going to turn a lot of 55K buyers away. The people that DO come looking for a 70K car will be disappointed and will not bother to haggle, especially down to the mid-50's.

30% of the cars at auction go unsold....I wouldn't call that good.

My 2 cents.

Edited on 2009-01-07 12:36:03

I am not an appraiser or any kind of expert but my off-the-cuff thought was $60-80k CDN or$50-70k USD. My theory (like the concours scoring) is give the car its fair market price AND then start deducting repair costs to get the real deal price.

Most people like/love the pricier open top and this colour-combo of Biscuit & BRG (does it get any more British than that?). I am not a fan of the 70's bumper guards. Standard shifting would add value.

The flux in the world economy is making the price of anything (EVERYTHING?) erractic but the trend seems to be steady prices for good cars (like older Jags).

D Lokun
62 XKE, etc.

Well, knock on wood, I've managed to keep my E-Type for over 35 years, so no, I haven't had any auction experience. But I think it is safe to say that you won't be pleased with the experience as a seller, nor on the offers for your car. It is certainly the place for a quickie sale if that's what you are after.

Good luck!

Patrick

I'm contemplating sending the car to Russo & Steele's upcoming Arizona auction. Has anyone had any experience with them? Again, many thanks for the replies and comments.

Thanks very much for the feedback. Is there an easy way to confirm whether the numbers match, and what the original colors were, or does some sort of heritage certificate need to be ordered?

From the pictures the car looks really nice, very few V12 E's have had engine swaps and so it is likely all original, Unfortunetely the V12 E is not as popular as the six cylinder cars. This is primarily based on false assumptions but the result is lower values. While I like the earlier cars ( I have a 66 coupe) if I only had one choice I would pick the V12 E Type, it is the best all round classic sports car I have ever had.

Of course "what its worth" is dependent on many, many things; and it is difficult to judge a car simply from photographs. A collector may or may not care about matching numbers depending on what he wants, but expect to take a dip in value if numbers don't match. The brake calipers and discs look a bit rusty so one can tell that it hasn't seen the road much, or, that the brake caipers (all four) are probably in need of rebuilding if they haven't been in the past. I assume the car has been repainted? And if so, is it the original color? Engine runs well? Transmission? Cosmetically, it looks okay.

NADA has comeout with a used car price guide for classics. You r car shows $39,900 (low), $57,475 (average), and $96,950 (high). I would suspect your car would be somewhere in the average range, assuming everything on the car works okay. These NADA prices may be a bit on the high side in today's market....and the poor economy only spells trouble in selling cars such as this.

Your options are to either take it to auction or put it on EBay or Hemmings, where it may or may not sell. Or you can just put it in storage to weather out the storm for a few years. You might also get it appraised by a certified appraiser, but what he says its worth and what someone will pay for it are two separate things. Determine your lowest selling price, and don't go below it. In other words, start at 55 grand, but settle for 50 grand.
In the meantime, the cleaner you can keep the car, the better. Also, any and all paperwork that came with the car is important to pull together. Put yourself in the buyers shoes, but realize there are lots of bottom-dwellers who are looking to flip cars like this. Do your homework!

Good luck!

Patrick McLoad

PS: Although this is from UK, you might want to read this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7705727.stm