Slalom Course Layout

Whatever is approved I will run, I just hope next year I do not have the same weight dissadvantage as this year, whatever happens I will have fun and keep my head out of the sand boxer, Art

Art said: "I agree with Paul, making the course (sic, different) will detract from the ease of learning the course, and people willl be giving up and not returning. This will probably apply especially to members who are getting on a bit in the age department. The course as is with 5 allowable runs , can be learned in one event and a reasonable performance achieved, and members almost always leave happy they made it clear around the course, and locally probably receive a trophy for their efforts."

Interesting...you think that learning the proposed revised pattern couldn't be easily done in one event? You've got to be kidding! It is no more difficult than the current pattern, just different.

Art said: "Anyone concerned with tyre wear should probably stay on the grass at the concours, true slalom people drive till the tyres are finito, then buy some more, tyres are cheap entertainment."

What a contradiction. First you criticize a simple change in pattern as potentially driving first timers away because it is too difficult, then you turn around and suggest that true slalom people will just go out and buy some new tires when they trash theirs. You want concours participants to join in the fun of slaloming, but you don't care if they prematurely wear out their left front tire 'cause they're cheap to replace! Wait till the first time concours competitor gets a look at their chunked left front tire and you tell him to just go buy another for show purposes. I just want to equalize the turns...what's your problem with that? Are you worried that you won't break 40 seconds again? Give me a break! And contrary to what you think, not all tires can be rotated to equalize wear when you have assymetric tires of different sizes front to rear.

Stevo

Pascal--------- Humor??????

George Camp

The link that Mike posted?

it's an animated GIF so it should show correctly, simple and universal.

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR

Pascal- I just clicked on the simulated run and my computer DNFed three times.
George Camp

Anyone wearing out their front tyres is probably not putting in enough air, I experimented and 54 pounds is necessary for a 4,000 pound car. SCCA run a different course every weekend, perhaps some of you tyre wearers should go there for a few weekends and see what they do with their tyres, they buy new ones, or they rotate them, and they have tyre pyrometers to help them save their tyres , and their breath, Art

Alternate is good, and has been done before, at the end of the California events many members do the course in reverse gear, now that is quite a thing to do, Art

I agree with Paul, making the course will detract from the ease of learning the course, and people willl be giving up and not returning. This will probably apply especially to members who are getting on a bit in the age department.
The course as is with 5 allowable runs , can be learned in one event and a reasonable performance achieved, and members almost always leave happy they made it clear around the course, and locally probably receive a trophy for their efforts.
Anyone concerned with tyre wear should probably stay on the grass at the concours, true slalom people drive till the tyres are finito, then buy some more, tyres are cheap entertainment.
I drove personally in stock class for 4 years with old Pirelli P 5s , those tyres earned me a 2nd in the 1st year, and the National #1 in class for the next three years. The following year I started buying full race tyres, these items can , and were expensive, winning in a big heavy takes a toll on your wallet for sure. Stock classes are just a matter of pumping up your front tyres mainly, filling up with gas, and go and have some fun, tyre wear ........
Art

Let's try that again:

Pascal:

It's already up on the site, just click the link.

I don't see any problem trying something new, as long as we're all doing it together.

Mike Frank

Let's try that again:

Pascal:

It's already up on the site, just click the link.

I don't see any problem trying something new, as long as we're all doing it together.

Mike Frank

Pascal:

It's already up on the site.

I don't see any problem with trying something new, as long as we're all doing it together.

Mike Frank

JCTI will be having a slalom on Sept. 14th. After the regular event is completed we are going to try out the proposed new course and see how it goes. The current course does tear up right front tires so we will be interested in seeing the difference. We will let you know how it goes. (Yes, we run in the rain too!)

Scott Young
Gray Ghost

"What the hell, is this NASCAR or something? Stevo "

oh.... that's a low one Steve :-)

hey at least we run in the rain...

I don't mind the changes, I' only concerned about novices getting lost and discouraged. already, many are having problems... they were a lot of DNFs in Phoenix. that's really the only problem that I see.

if you could draw your proposal, we could post it on the website. if you don't have a scanner, fax it to me to 305 379 0307 i'll scan it and post it

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR

Art said: "I have ran this course now for twelve years and are not bored in the least with it."

Typical JCNA think. 'Hey, we've been doing it this way for a hunnert years, let's keep doing it for another hunnert.' Can't you guys break out of your rut?

Just because YOU aren't bored doesn't mean others feel the same way. And I'm damn tired of tearing up my left front tire with all the RIGHT turns for this pattern. What the hell, is this NASCAR or something?

Stevo

The current slalom course was designed by a Pro Slalom Champion, a Canadian , John Haftner. The course was scaled down by Jerry Parkhill, and has since been called the Parkhill Course. The course is called a technical / handling in its configuration. The way the course is run now starts off with an Hourglass design, speeds are lowest on this initial lap, and the constant turning helps heat the tyres for the next more demanding lap , the Figure Eight , this lap also builds more temperature into the tyres and prepares the car and driver for the fastest time on the track for the final lap, The Full Oval , the tyres at this moment are about to be put to the final test for the Full Stop in the stop box .
I have ran this course now for twelve years and are not bored in the least with it. My challenge has always been to be faster than in the previous year, going faster every year is a challenge and unless you get the seat time and practice lots, you may not make it. A certain amount of extra horses has helped my times come down, suspension and sticky tyres help most. The trick is to get extra traction to where the car handles well, and then try and find some more power, the search goes on, the challenge is always there.
Reversing the course and keeping it's present layout is my favoured route, this course has it's Benchmark for all of us. As the racers say, Don't let the course beat you, beat your times and beat the course like I have , Hi Ho Silver, Away.....................Art

I thin the new course only requires more concentration because we're used to the old course...the tendency is to do things by habit. With practice, the new course won't confuse and will be at least as fast as the old course. What we need to get this started are some good diagrams, perhaps a card or sheet that can be handed out at the event.

http://www.jcna.com/library/news/2003/images/slalom2.gif

Mike Frank

As to Gary's comments, I think that "handicapping" class winners by making them run a different course is not a good idea. There is enough confusion making sure that each entrant runs the proper course properly. If we had certain people who might have to run a different course, how would it be policed, and what additional confusion would that cause? Personally, I've learned a lot watching you run the course -- enough that I won my class last year. And now I see that others watch me to pick up pointers on improving their performance as well. It's gratifying to be able to share tips and see others' times improve as a result. And winning a class one year doesn't guarantee a win the next even under the current system -- just look at the standings in most classes, especially H (modified).

Paul, I agree that we should keep it relatively simple and make it as easy as possible for novices to join, get involved, and improve. Even under the current system, experienced drivers can lose their way. Lord knows (and you do too) that I do it now and then, and did it at your last event a few weeks ago. I think the idea behind the proposal is two-fold: first, to equalize right and left hand turns to equalize stresses on the car and wear on the tires. Second, to keep up interest by requiring people to think about the course. Just add a little spice through variety.

Linda's comments raise another related issue. The way the course currently runs, it is predominantly right hand turns. The proposed course equalizes right and left, so differences in right and left turn characteristics of the cars cancel each other out.

I'm still in favor of considering the change. And yes, we do have to reorganize the rules and address the issues of street prepared, stock and modified, as well as treadwear rating issues. Hopefully, once the busy summer and early fall schedules are behind us, the full committee will be able to dig in and start sorting the issues.

Please keep your cards and letters coming! We need all the thoughts we can get aired in public so we can keep this program fresh, interesting and fair for all competitors. And I'd love to see some of the other committee members air their opinions here as well. I hate being the loan voice in the wilderness. :-)

Thanks all,

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
JCNA Slalom Committee Chairman
JTC Slalom Chair

The August issue of Automobile magazine has the final write up on their 12 month test of an X-type. Under performance one of the things considered was left-right turning. When turning left the car averaged .82g, when turning right it was .78g. A substantial difference and definitely makes me want to turn left more than right!

I would imagine that these same statistics for other models are available somewhere and it would be interesting to see what they are.

L D Young

Now that I have had some time to think about the various format changes that have been suggested, I am beginning to become concern about making things complicated for the sake of change.

One of the primary draws to the beginning "slalomer", is the rapid improvement that occurs as one begins to learn the course. This is what "sets the hook" and brings them back for the next event. And one of the best features of the current JCNA slalom course is that it is easy to learn. If we make it difficult, I am concern that we will not get drivers back for their second event. Learning and seeing improvement creates a positive experience which equates to a fun experience. And since none of us are getting paid for this, nor are we foolish enought to think that thrashing our cars around a course is adding value to the vehicle, I must conclude that we are doing this for the fun of it.

Let's keep it simple and fun. That way, we will attract the most participants. And as an organizer of 2 events a year, I feel it is my responsibility to my club to put on an event that will appeal to as many members as possible.

- Paul Delatush
J.A.G. -Slalom Chair