As a Concours participant for several years now I've noticed that the rules becom better defined every year - especially with the recent revisions at the AGM. I think that this is a good thing for concours competition. My question centers around the judges adhering to their own rules. For example, what is the entrant to do when a judge takes an extroidinary amount of time to complete the judging? Say 45 minutes. The rules say each judge is limited to 15 minutes. Should the deductions that they take after the 15 minutes are up, declared invalid? What does an entrant do when a judge starts to touch items on the car? What about when the judge asks the entrant to show them something that is excluded from judging? ie: inside the gas lid. How bout when the judge consults with another judge (for other classes) and that second judge has a car entered in that class. The second judge did not hesitate to offer opinions on his competition to the first judge. I observed all of these things at a recent concours and they are all against the rules. Entrants are now being held to extremely high standards, why should a judge be allowed to ignore their requirements?

Submitted by bill.beiswinge… on Tue, 06/08/2004 - 10:04

Dick,

First of all, thank you for a quick, clear and concise response. (Thanks to Jeff as well) I observed some violations while this particular judge was reviewing another class and some while he was judging my class. I am considering not pursueing this matter any further, as I do not wish to cause another class to be disqualified. I did respond to the judge in the manner that Jeff recommended, unfortunately it only seemed to anger him. I would welcome the chance to talk with you about the situation. I'll email you with contact information.
Bill

Submitted by SW03-09811 on Tue, 06/08/2004 - 00:52

Bill,
Jeff is essentially correct in his response.

1. The circumstance you described is very unfortunate and, on its face, represents a violation of some of the most basic JCNA Judging Rules.

a. The judge is not allowed to touch the car unless the Entrant has given him or her permission to do so.

b. Several parts of the rules address the Judge's conduct relative to resolving issues and avoiding even the appearance of favoritism. There is also a stern warning to Entrants who might deliberately criticize/fault an Entry competing in their same class. While the specific words aren't used, this caution clearly applies to a Judge who is asked a question about an Entry competing in the same class in which he or she may have a car entered. Basically stated, a Judge is not allowed to ask an Entrant a serious question about the condition, cleanliness or authenticity of a competing Entry.

c. Actual judging time is ideally limited to 15 minutes per car. A few minutes extra is not considered unreasonable but barring unusual circumstances, (such as one or more Judges starting late, a Judge being called away, or an extended authenticity discussion with the Entrant) the entire process, including required conversation, initialing and Mechanical checks, should be completed in 20-25 minutes or less.

2. If an Entrant perceives violations of the judging rules, the Judging Team leader should be promptly notified. If his or her response is unsympathetic, the Entrant should ask to speak with the Chief Judge. If the Chief Judge does not rectify the situation, or gives an unsatisfactory explanation, the Entrant is encouraged to file a formal Protest with the JCNA Protest Committee.

3. Should the Protest Committee agree that the rules have been grossly violated, one of the few (after-the-fact) recourses available is to disqualify the entire class and/or all the classes Judged by the offending team at that particular concours.

4. I would like to contact you directly in order to have the Chief Judge of the concours in question explain what happened. This correspondence will also be forwarded to other JCNA Chief Judges.

The system will never be perfect, but it should work better than this.

Regards,
Dick Cavicke
Chair, JCNA Judge's Concours Rules Committee

Submitted by jklein@genphys… on Mon, 06/07/2004 - 15:56

First, your recourse is clearly spelled out in the handbook, find the chief judge and ask him to enforce the rules. The rules DO apply to both paticipants, judges, and host club. The events you decribe are clearly violations and should be reported so they can be addressed.

However, the simple fact is that there is always a shortage of qualified judges as there are always to few people willing to take the time to learn the cars and the rules and to then qualify to judge.

I have not had the misfortune to experience anything like you describe. However, I have found myself, as a judge, reaching out to touch simply because I forget. But the events you describe go well beyond "an honest mistake". Someone needed to be monitoring this team, however, chief judges and coordinators cannot be everywhere at once and that leaves you as the participant with the unrewarding task of calling foul.

Had it been me, I would of tactfully offered to open or close any door or lid, asked them to please refrain from touching my car, and flat out refused (citing the rule book) if asked to open the fuel filler. As far as consulting with a judge outside the team, I am not sure where the rules stand on this but it seems to violate the sane team remains intact judging all the cars in a class requirement. If the team is not sure then maybe they shouldn't be judging that class. Again, this goes back to the problem of not enough judges who know each model and class.

The bottom line is that your presumably rhetorical question can only be answered with "It is the host club's, chief judge's and each individual judge's duty to ensure they understand and both enforce and live by the rules as written."

Finally, if I had this experience and got no satisfaction complaining to the chief judge, I'd make sure I avoided that club in the future and let my specific complaints (with names and details) be know to the JCNA.

Jeff Klein
1970 OTS, BRG