I feel strongly enough about the authenticity exceptions proposed for the Driven Division to extract the discussion from the general thread regarding the other proposals.

I see no justification for allowing non-authentic wheel finish or for allowing modern tape and CD players to escape deductions. To me, concours is about presenting the cars as they were when new, in all their understated elegance and beauty. The potential for gaudy chromed or painted wheels and flashing light displays on consoles is very disheartening to this Jaguar enthusiast. It also concerns me that these exceptions would be just the beginning - what else will be proposed in the future?

Please, let's keep the authenticity rules in place. For those who want to personalize or modify their cars, the proposal for the Special Interest Division makes perfect sense, but let's not water down the concours rules.

Submitted by marks@jcca.us on Sat, 08/09/2003 - 00:36

Pascal,

But you see the complexity we are getting ourselves into -- defining what aftermarket or dealer-installed wheels are OK. Trying to determine how may lights a sound system can have before it becomes too gaudy.

I really think we should keep it simple. The one suggestion about having a Champion Division, doing away with Driven, and having everything else be People's Choice has merit, but I'll grant that it's a radical departure.

I think that we should look at something in between that and what we have and what is being proposed. For example, I could get strongly behind a proposal keep Champion and Driven Division as they are currently consitituted (consolidation of classes being a separate issue) and replace the idea of a Modified Division which has certain authenticity requirements and judging with no regard for taste, and create an Open Division.

Open Division would have no requirements other than the car be Jaguar powered. (Jaguar chassised, might also be part of the requirement.)
It would includes any car not entered in a judged class, so all display cars would automatically be in open and competing. All Entrants and JCNA members present would be given ballots and they would vote on their favorite.

Then if someone wants to replace a radio with a Christmas-tree MP3 player and wide, gold, 100-spoke low-rider wheels with 50-series tires that extend a foot past the body, they have a place where they can show the car. Unless people really want to judge such a creation in Driven Division.

Keep in mind, we could add the chain steering wheel, fuzzy dice, curb feelers, headliner fringe, jump-capable air suspension, and seats so low you can barely see over the steering wheel, and they'd still have a place in the proposed Modified Division. The scary thing is that if it was beautifully painted in the finest metal flake gold, perfectly pleated in the finest crushed red velour, and impeccably clean, it would win.

Personalizing a car is a personal decision. But the beauty of the end result is "in the eye of the beholder." It's something you look at and you either like or not. There is no way you can quantify it. At least in a division decided by People's Choice, the cumulative taste of the members present will determine the outcome. Under the current proposal there is, quite literally, "no accounting for taste."

Mark Stephenson
Jaguar Club of Central Arizona

Submitted by pascal@jcna.com on Fri, 08/08/2003 - 17:16

Re wheels, I think you are right and there has to be some restrictions... imagine someone showing up with gold plated wires on a modern S-type...
there has to be some clarification as to what is ok. for instance, chrome wheels on XK8s are often an issue... where they factory installed or sold by the dealers. This needs to be defined.

Re modern radios, CD, etc... again for originality's sake they shouldn't be allowed but at the same time driven is not as much about preserving the heritage than about opening the concours program to some who wouldn't otherwise participate since we don't judge engines and boots. a little flexibiility may not be bad there. A decent stereo in a driver is needed and 30 year old units are totally inadequate. Some are also no longer repairable. I think even on XJ40s, you can no longer get replacements and repairs are sometimes impossible.

Isn't it a bit silly to say you can not have a modern stereo in a Driven car when we don't judge some important components like suspension in Champion division ?

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR