Can someone with specific knowledge point out where in the concours rules and scoresheets license plate brackets are addressed? I was under the impression that missing plates and brackets were worth a deduction, however I can find no reference to this in the rules or the scoresheets. If it is not addressed how does a judge determine how much of a deduction is earned if a bracket and plate on a car is missing?

Regards, John

Submitted by jerry@moutons.org on Fri, 06/20/2003 - 00:06

Hi, John,

Check the Series 1 Guide on the JCNA website, especially the very end. I learned at Phoenix (it's verified there) that if the car does not have holes in the lower lip, it has the rubber plug in the oval hole for the retractor shaft, and the complete license plate mount is displayed, that's considered authentic, too. Remember that only about half of the states in the US issue front plates at all, and in the '60s the number was even smaller. Not all E Types were delivered in the US with a front plate holder, though JCNA asserts that all came with a mounting plate, uninstalled.

Jerry Mouton '64 E Type FHC
"Laissez les bons temps rouler!"

Submitted by cleavefamily@c… on Thu, 04/10/2003 - 16:50

Yes, even learned judges disagree. Be assured that the JCRC is addressing this problem and has been since its beginning about 1.5 years ago. We have been trying to figure a way to standardize the discretionery deducts for defects and cleanliness, but you comments prove there is also a problem on the mandatory deduct side of things, i.e., missing or non-authentic.

I'm writing the Series 2 Judging Guide and it will be posted for comment on the website soon. The L.P. brackets are addressed there too. I'd appreciate hearing your comments after you've studied it. Thanks for your thoughts; I will forward them to the full JCRC.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2
and other LBC's

Submitted by jrwalker@ev1.net on Thu, 04/10/2003 - 16:32

Steve: Yes, 69 2+2 in my case so I don't know that the Series I guide would be applicable. I know it is not possible to list each item to be judged and it's point assessment but I would think it would make sense to list items, like the license plate brackets, that frequently come into question.

If you judged my car and didn't have the bracket I would lose .5 points. Hal Kritzman, JCRC, in a response on Jag-lovers, tells me the deduct is 3 points. Pascal points out that the 1997 protest set the deduct at 1.5 points. I am not disputing that there should be a deduction for not having the bracket, provided the car was delivered from the dealer with one (which brings up a whole different topic), but I am concerned about the lack of consistancy regarding how much people think should be deducted.

Regards, John

Submitted by cleavefamily@c… on Thu, 04/10/2003 - 15:25

John:
I assume you are talking about an E-Type. If a Series 1, take a look at the Series 1 E-Type Judging Guide. This issue was also the subject of a protest several years back and the Protest Committee ruled on the issue; it was written up in the Jaguar Journal. These Protest Committee reports are also on this website on the Concours Page, beginning with the with 1997 Concours Year.

Take a look at Chapter VI of the Rule Book. While this item is not specifically listed in Chater VI, similar items are. I would say a 0.50 deduction would be in order based on the similar items listed. The JCRC is reviewing Chapter VI this year to make sure that deductions are "in line". Perhaps the list will be expanded to include common items that are not now listed.

Stew Cleave
JOCO Chief Judge
'69 E-Type 2+2
and other LBC's