2005 Challenge Championship Scheduling

Pascal,
I stated in fact Phoenix was a good deal, I agree. There are however some vintage race groups that give reduced entry fees for persons who trailer over a certain distance. Our group has even discussed, and this will probably happen at our concour this year, that anyone travelling 1,000 miles to our event will receive free Concour entry fee, one condition being that participation to all other events such as slalom and banquet would be paid for by same entrant. So you can come and show for free, but you must also eat, and go......to the slalom site.... and have some fun with your car,. We also will be initiating a Best Overall Newcomer Award, based on the Concours score, and the closest time to the previous years Championship Slalom time for each class, One trophy only.

Art

I doubt costs can be less than they were. they were able to get a lot of sponsoring to lower the fees at Phoenix. I mean it was a terrific deal.

I seriously believe that traveling on week end, show on tuesday, drive Wed thur fri banquet friday night and travel home on the week end would help with attendance.

the only reason to have the concours on week end is to help locals attend the event. That's not a good enough reason. Priority should be to those travelling 1000, 2000, 2500 miles.

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club
72 E-type 2+2
00 XKR Coupe
99 XJR

Someone's getting the right idea it seems, travel on the weekends, show the cars first, and keep the price DOWN, several people I know have baulked at even some of our local Regional Event prices. This however cannot be said about the Phoenix event ( price that is )possibly there could be even more reduction in entry fees for persons trailering their pride and joys a thousand miles or more, trailering a car consumes probably about 3 times the cash , race rubber don't last long enough to drive there, Art

Pascal says "that means starting with the concours so that we can all enjoy our cars without fear of getting them dirty.."

YES! The show schedule has been the main complaint around here. It is exactly why we did not attend the show in Phoenix. People need the weekend to travel and they want to compete in the driving events and have fun during the week. Have the show on Tuesday or Wednesday and the banquet on Friday. Everyone is headed for home on Saturday morning.
L D Young
"Nice 1"
Jaguar Club of Tulsa

The idea of doing the concours before the driving events is a no brainer. Would it increase participation in the driving events or tours? I certainly think so. I wouldn't hesitate to take Peaches on the tours if I could bring up the rear. She's pretty, but she ain't fast! I would hate to get in anyone's way.
Pascal, you may have noticed in one of my earlier posts that I would encourage a firm date for the CC. We should also consider finding a venue that would be fair for everyone. Maybe Omaha? Or somewhere in the geographic center of the country. Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel. Or should that be Cat?
Mike

1938 SS Jaguar 1.5 Litre Saloon
More affectionately known as PEACHES

I agree with Pascal on the point about scheduling during the week. Franklin worked well for our group from New Jersey, except that most of us had to make a mad dash back to NJ on Sunday, trying to get back for work on Monday. (Didn't work. Most of us got back late Monday.) We had a leisurely trip down the prior weekend and beginning of the week, enjoyed the events during the week, culminating with the concours and banquet on Saturday, and then up and out early Sunday to hit the road. Had the concours been on Friday (or earlier in the week) and the final awards dinner/gala on Friday evening, the ride home over the weekend would have been a snap.

For those of us who still have to plan our lives around work or school schedules, planning an event so that the entire trip could be done in one week -- Saturday to the following Sunday -- would make the likelihood of attending much better.

Steve Weinstein, JTC-NJ
'72 E-type 2+2
'70 XKE FHC

the fact is that every month from may thru early october is filled with events so no matter what a couple of clubs will have to reschedule.

maybe a long term solution would be to always have the JCC at the same time every other year. I know it makes things harder for the organizers but it might be worth it.

another thing about schedules with a week end is that it blows 2 weeks for those travelling from other regions. that was a problem with Phoenix... a little less in Franklin since concours was on satruday. Colorado was perfect... yes it makes it easier for locals to attend but much harder for others to get away. since this is our national event, I think we shoudl make it easier on people travelling...In my opinion, events shoudl be scheduled Mon-Fri so that people can travel on the week ends.

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club

Hey there, everyone. Another of the usual suspects piping up here....
The thread is interesting, and I think Mike has a valid concern. We are usually looking at two of our 3 (now 4) Florida club concours events taking place in September. Either they have to be moved (not impossible) or they will cause the members to have to choose between the club concours and the CC. That would only work against both with neither show fully attended. Since the JCNA needs the local help at the CC they should consult local clubs as to scheduling.

To further increase attendance at the CC, I think we should make it as interesting and varied as possible. Then get the membership interest peaked through the local club newsletters and JCNA Journal.

I agree with Pascal and others that the concours should come before the driving events. It's all about cleaning.... Perhaps the awards banquet could be on the weekend for those who can't stay all week.
Something like this:

Fri. Meetings / Greetings
Sat. Concours
Sun. Slalom / Evening awards banquet
Mon. Rally
Tues. Scenic Drive, tour
Wed. Something cool, worth waiting for
Thur. Casual Farewell Party!

Each day should have a couple of things to choose from, so if someone doesn't want to slalom, etc., there is something else to do.

But do you think people will hang for the whole week if the awards banquet isn't last on the schedule?

Just my $.02
Ginger Corda
1971 E-Type

PS that's NOT me in the pic1 ;-P

that's the problem with surveys... I think it's up to local clubs to figure out what their members expect but for the Challenge Championship, I think it could be beneficial.

Ideally, it should have been done in Phoenix, with a simple card collected at the end to get feedback from the members. Another way, would be to mail a short letter to members who attended Franklin to find out why they didn't show up in Phoenix. yes distance is a big reason but maybe it could be beneficial to know what would have made these member show up.

simple things... like what time of the year (is it easier for people to take a week off in the summmer?) ... is it better to make it a week long thing and travel on week ends ... woudl you have like on more tour / driving event... woudl have been interested in attending some techincal seminars (restoration, mechanical,...) etc etc etc

We all have ideas about how to make our biggest event even better and bigger, getting feedback is the only way to know if these ideas are right or wrong.

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club

Mike,

I know your question was destined for Pascal so please forgive my intrusion.

Regarding surveys: yes, there have been surveys done in the past. I believe (don't quote me on this) that the last one was done 5-6 years ago when Eric was president and I *think* it was done through the Jaguar Journal. I've never seen the results nor do I know if any action was ever taken or any conclusions drawn. One of the worst sins you can commit in surveys is to ask the membership what they want and then not listen to what they have to say.

Some of the local clubs have done a great job with surveys. My club has done one recently. I saw a very good one done a few years ago by the Illinois club(I think?). One of the country's biggest clubs, the Jaguar Associates Group in San Francisco has done some great surveys and adapted their product and services as a result.

One of the big challenges of a "JCNA-wide" survey is going to be getting a decent repsonse rate. Remember that less than 5% of the membership bothers to vote in regional director elections and usually the response rate is 1-2%. I would hazard a guess that a Jaguar Journal led survey will bring a similar low response rate. What value can we place on a survey if the only people who respond are the Mike Fultons, the Pascal Gademers, the Gary Hagopians and the Daniel Thompsons of this world?

Before we get too deeply into the topic of surveys though, plase take a minute to read an editorial that appeared in this months issue of the Jaguar Associates Group newsletter:

http://jags.org/jagazette/2003/12Dec03/p07.pdf

Pay particular attention to the percentages quoted. Now I ask you this question: what is JCNA doing to alleviate the problem described in the editorial?

Thanks,

Daniel

Pascal.
I remember in another discussion, you brought up the idea of a membership survey. That is a wonderful idea and probably long over due. Unfortuanately, we see a very small percentage of our membership taking advantage of the JCNA and the Club forums. I guess the only way to contact the majority of our members is via the Journal. Would it be possible to put such a survey in the Journal? I am assumming that would be our most economical way of distributing it in print.

1938 SS Jaguar 1.5 Litre Saloon
More affectionately known as PEACHES

I don't know if the gap has an effect on interest, it could. For east coasters, it's not a 2 year gap, but 4 years. way too much.

I also believe that we do not offer enough activities at the JCC. It's basically just a concours, slalom and rally with a couple of bus tours. Not enough. that's what you get at your average concours week end...

My best memories of Phoenix were the drives... not the "fashion" show or swap meet... and i know a few guys on these drives who feel the same. Franklin? the drive to the JD distillery... the rally... except for a minority of serious Concours participants, those who drive the distance to get to the JCC want to make the most of it. of course, that means starting with the concours so that we can all enjoy our cars without fear of getting them dirty....

I've said it before, the organizing committee cannot play tarrot reader, the only way to know what members want is to ask them with a survey. to know what those who attended liked and didn't like and also why those who didn't attend didn't...

a year ago or so I looked at various club sites, porsche, ferrari, alfa, etc... they had more events, more things to do... tours.. drives... etc...

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club

Hi Pascal,
Yes, it says plenty. Disinterest pretty well covers all the bases. In talking with some of my "other car buddies", it seems that theit national events attract a much higher percentage of their members. I'll try to get some numbers from them. I wonder what they do differently?
I agree with you on the Western event. Sure, it should be folded in and the CC should become an annual event. Don't you think the two year gap has an effect on the interest?
Mike
See you in St. Augustine in April?

1938 SS Jaguar 1.5 Litre Saloon
More affectionately known as PEACHES

Mike,

looing at the calendar for 2004, May, June and september are just about equally as busy. July and August appear a little less busy but if you look at 2002 and 2003, there isn't that much difference. It's very probable that some events for july and august 04 are just not listed yet.

i don't know why the JCC will come back to the SE region again but I recall that the committee looked at various locations. Was Atlanta picked because it all added up? local club willing to step to the plate, interesting location, adequate facilities, etc... most likely.

I also remember the BOD asking clubs, any club, to step up and volunteer to host the Challenge or the AGM. I don't recall a line of volunteers... let's face it, it is a huge undertaking and few clubs have the volunteer team to pull it off. You guys did a great job with the AGM this year and know how much effort went into it.

Without turning this into a contest or rivalry between east and west, attendance at Franklin was a record. Actually if you add the non judged cars, i think the final number was closer to 200. Phoenix was closer to 100 / 120, just like Colorado. seems like members from the western regions don't show up as much as we do here in the east.

I don't know why... I still think it is in part because the Western Clubs have their bi annual Western States meet. I've mentioned it before, I think it's time for the Western States meet to become part of the Challenge, just like it is evey other year on the west coast, alternating with a JCC on the East Coast. After all, members on the east coast had to wait 4 years for another national meet, whereas on the west coast they had 2 Western states and a JCC over a 3 year period.

Few members are willing to cross the country to attend a JCC. only 1 yes.... ONE... member from the Werstern regions came to Franklin... and about 10 from the east went to Phoenix. doesn't this say something?

Pascal Gademer
South Florida Jaguar Club

Gary,
Beleive me, I can understand what a chore it is to organize an event of this magnitude. But I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. You have to respect the local affiliates first. They are the backbone of JCNA. September is the worst possible month to schedule the CC. As I said in my original posting, three weeks in September have been erased from the schedule, and May would be a poor choice as well.
Brasselton is less than a two hour drive from my home. Am I happy about that? Of course I am. Very convenient for me. Which brings me to another thought. We held the 2001 CC in Franklin, which is in the SE region. And now we are scheduling the 2005 event in the SE as well! Is that fair to the other regions? You don't have to explain to me the center of membership and other worthless details. Supposedly, sixty percent of the membership lives within a days drive of Franklin, and I guess about the same for Brasselton. Franklin was a wonderful event, especially the collection of C's, D's, and XKSS's that Terry Larson put together. It was history. Will we ever see such a collection again? But don't you think that one-hundred seventy-six cars was a light turnout?
Let's be fair to all here. As I see it, the CC needs to be moved from region to region and be organized by the membership within that region, rather than by a "national" committee. Everyone should have the chance to showcase their region. And let's try to nail down a firm date. All successful events are held on the same date, year after year.
Mike

1938 SS Jaguar 1.5 Litre Saloon
More affectionately known as PEACHES